Topic: Which way is Sony heading - new heads and all.

So yeah, Ive started this thread based on recent events with Sony inplanting John Kodera and the way Switch has taken Japan by storm.

Which way are Sony heading? What negatives or positives are we heading towards? What are you hoping Sony introduce?

The way they have been. A focus on powerful home console hardware for reasonable prices, pushed by excellent exclusive games along a variety of genres. Which appeals to the West, so they'll keep doing fine.

Switch is going to dominate Japan for the foreseeable future, though, and based on how well it seems to be selling almost everywhere that isn't the UK, it's going to make considerable in-roads worldwide. Unless Nintendo loses momentum, which is possible if they keep playing their cards so close to their chest or make too many more weird announcements.

Last year was expertly played, though: good advertising; a solid release schedule; they've been scouting "mature" games to release on their platform. I'm pretty enthusiastic about their future at this point.

Sony are sitting pretty at the top of the 'sales' chart with a healthy lead and you could argue they don't need to do anything differently. After all, they have the 'exclusives' and PSVR too.

Switch may well be selling well now but Nintendo still has a massive mountain to climb if the aim is to beat PS4. Sony could respond with a Vita 2 that could be (almost) as powerful as a PS4 and run PS4 games with a minor scale down in resolution - say to 720p - to save on needing such a powerful GPU and save battery life too - running a more powerful GPU and 1080p screen would add to battery drain. But would people buy it? Especially if it meant having to buy their PS4 games again. It maybe asking to much for devs to scale down games to vita 2 specs for 'nothing' - even if you did buy digitally. Physical copies are certainly unlikely to work. Maybe going forward, they could sell games that work on Vita 2 like some 'cross-buy' but then you are expecting devs to essentially create 3 different versions - PS4, Pro enhanced and Vita 2.

As for the home console market, they do have PSVR and a decent range of exclusives as the Playstations USP. Its inevitable that Sony will be looking to bring out a PS5 at some point to deliver the full 4k and 'next' gen features - like Dolby Atmos, Game VRR and 4k HDR Bluray. After all the biggest sellers on PS4 are multi-platform releases and the majority of exclusives tend to sell less than 5% to the potential user market and PSVR is currently at less than 3% of PS4 sales. It will be interesting to see what Sony do to try and ensure they lead in the 4k era. Whether or not they implement BC with the PS4 games or not. MS it seems will and with a lot of games offering dynamic scaling and unlocked frame rates, those games should immediately benefit on BC too - same as 'boost' mode essentially benefits PS4 games.

Essentially though, Sony 'could' sit on their hands for the next 3yrs or so and do nothing. The devs/studio's will still keep bringing out projects as well as the continued release of multi-plat releases should keep Sony ticking along nicely. Even if they do end up 3rd in the monthly sales chart for their console, the others won't catch up or overtake so as long as sales keep building up, they will keep moving the goal posts for the chasing pack. Its just when Sony want to deliver their next Home console, when they want to bring the full 4k and next gen features to its fanbase. I know sales are exceptional on the PS4, but then they were with the PS4 when Sony gave us the PS4, they were with the PS2 when Sony opted to join the HD era etc and in all cases, the older gen lived on for years so a PS5 won't be the end of the PS4 and it will still keep selling. Sony could try and make a PS4 Pro Slim I guess for 2018 instead of a PS5 but reducing its size won't be easy considering how small it is.

Personally, I think Sony ought to go for a PS5 sooner - especially as all the current consoles (inc the X) are limited with the CPU and that is the biggest problem for Devs. Being able to offer 4k/60 where the others are limited to 30fps would be a 'big' thing. Maybe they could look to bring a Vita 2 in couple of years when the hardware can be more powerful and more efficient with longer lasting batteries to deliver PS4 on the go. They could make a dock for the PS5 that displays games on the big screen, uses the DS5 and maybe even boosts games to run/look better too....

@KratosMD Haha, I am pretty certain we wont see cardboard peripherals from Sony. Lololol.

@Ralizah Fair point. With Nintendo the UK doesnt seem to have as strong a connection culturally. Being based in Japan I can see switch magnifying its threat to Sony to an extent.

@BAMozzy "They could make a dock for the PS5 that displays games on the big screen, uses the DS5 and maybe even boosts games to run/look better too...."

Absolutely this, possibly vanilla ps4 power dockless, ps5 power in the dock. Sounds like a proposition that Sony could work if they go down the hybrid route.

Wherever they are going as long as they support the Console with First party games and third party games with Vr Support I'm going With them.

@KratosMD Dang, you beat me too it.

They just had their best ever year (not that you'd really know by the way the media's reported it) so I think 2018 will be more of the same. They may revise the hardware again (form factor, not power) and I think they'll definitely bring the base model down to $199 at some point this year.

Behind the scenes they'll be working on PS5 which I imagine will follow the same tenants as the PS4 (affordable, high quality hardware) but I think they'll also be developing a new VR headset and motion controllers to go in tandem with that.

I think they're going to continue iterating on services like PS Plus, PS Now, and PS Vue too, because that's where the real money is these days.

EDIT: Also, I don't think Japan is massively important to Sony anymore. Don't get me wrong, they'll continue to invest in Japan and Japanese games, but PlayStation is an American company now. Their priorities are the NA and EU markets.

Although Nintendo did really well by selling 10 million Switches in 9 or 10 months, PS4 did that in 6 months. But most of the media reported that Sony were third over the Christmas period, and had the WORST CHRISTMAS EVAR.

I'm not worried at all about the immediate future, more about the next gen. All the main players seem to get a bit cocky after having a good period and lose what is important to their core audience. Think Nintendo with the Wii U, Sony with PS3 and MS with XBO.

Hopefully Sony will do something like they did with the PS1 and PS2, as I think that is the last time a console manufacturer nailed it from one gen to the next.

@themcnoisy I wasn't thinking of a hybrid design myself but a separate dock sold as a Vita 2 charger and connector to the PS5 - 3 separately sold items - this is Sony after all. It would be give players the choice - Console, handheld and/or 'Hybrid-ish'. Maybe the dosck would convert some games to play at PS4 Pro level rather than PS5. Other games may sync with the PS5 so your save/progress is transferred to and you play the PS5 version if you bought digitally from where you left off - kind of instantly loads or maybe loads in the background whilst you play the vita 2 version until it syncs and swaps over or kind of runs both together, just in case you need to undock and carry on playing - only works with Digital purchases but Sony could put some 'Play anywhere' spin and that you get 2 for 1 similar to how MS do with their Xbox and PC games - except with Sony it really is play ANYWHERE.

@get2sammyb I know that Sony have had their best year but that is still in the 'past' now. Sony don't want to resting on their laurels but looking to the future and bringing the 'best' to their fanbase. Sure I can see them dropping the price this year but as for PSVR, I can see them working on a new iteration for the PS5 era. The PS4 really doesn't have the grunt for a more advanced VR headset - not without making a new box that actually boosts the game performance but that would still result in wires. The CPU in the PS4 is the stumbling block and GPU isn't great either - not for today market. I know the Pro has a much better GPU but even that is not that powerful by current standards and the console itself is very much locked to the PS4. Even if Sony where to bring out something 'new' with PSVR, it would have to run on the PS4 too and as we see, their is a big disparity between the the two consoles and VR on both. I know RE7 works with VR but if you assess the quality of each, the two VR versions (PS4 and Pro) compared with the consoles, you can see how much of the resources running the game on VR impacts on the quality. The Pro VR isn't quite up to the base console version visually. Its also evident in other games - like GT Sport and its limited car counts for example.

Not saying VR is 'rubbish' on those, but it does show the amount of PS4 resources are limiting the VR experience comparatively. The headset itself isn't the 'best' spec-wise on the market but regardless, its still been the 'best' selling headset of the 'premium' devices BUT I do think that if Sony were to reiterate, were to try and bring it up in terms of specs etc, then they would certainly need a more powerful Console. If, like I fully expect, the PS5 is designed for the 4k market and with a decent CPU, there is no reason why a 1440p revision of the PSVR headset wouldn't be unreasonable. I do expect that the current PSVR would have to be connectable to the next gen - maybe not need the box as the audio and TV processing chips could be built in. Audio for example could be handled by a dedicated Chip offering Atmos for non-VR games as well as 3D (maybe Atmos too) sound for VR. The better CPU and GPU would have little trouble with 1440/90 or even 120fps without sacrificing too much (if anything) after all the console is built to deliver 2160p (that's more than 2x the pixel count) and 60fps. Dropping the res by more than 50% and with a decent CPU shouldn't have too much trouble delivering at least 90fps on VR. Whether we see Wireless or not remains to be seen but the latest developments in VR do without cameras and sensors around the room and use built in cameras in the headset to know exactly where it is, which way its facing etc. If they can connect wirelessly, without lag, then that could be a way forward but whether that happens 'next' or not, and within their 'budget' (ie not making the Headset too expensive to consumers), we will have to see. As for controllers, Move certainly needs 'something'. If they do go with a new design - ie one with cameras in the headset, they may have no need for 'light balls' at all.

As I said in my post above, Sony really could sit on their hands for the next 3yrs+ and let things tick over. Let their studios continue making project after project and still have a 'healthy' sales lead. I still think though that they will be looking to bring the next gen PS5 sooner to bring proper 4k to its user base. Sony was still selling PS1's when they launched the PS2 and I could say the same for each new generation launch. In fact they continued to sell PS1's, PS2's and PS3's for quite some time after the launch of the next gen. Sony don't seem to be a company who are happy to sit back and bleed a product until its 'literally' dead before bringing out a new generation. Not just consoles but every hardware product they make. Of course they have 'great' games to come but those 'great' games could be improved by being full 4k/60. Whether that's a simultaneous multi-generational release OR like we have seen with the PS4 era, they get a 'remaster' and release at 4k/60, the way the devs probably made them to be in the first place.

I bet Uncharted 4 was made to run at 4k/60 - in fact ND stated they were aiming for 60fps so unlike H:ZD which was always built for 30fps (according to GG), that could be 'remastered' to 4k/60 instead of 1440/30, 1080/60 on Pro. I bet Last of Us 2 would be a 4k/60 game but probably end up being 1440/30 on Pro too. Multi-plat games are built to 4k/60 anyway because of the PC market so the software is already there for Sony if/when they do decide to join the 4k era. As I said, I know they could sit on their hands and let things tick over for the next 3yrs + and still have a healthy lead in this gen but I am sure that Sony will want to bring the next gen sooner than later, to keep that momentum and fanbase into the 4k era.

By also building a Console with a superior CPU, offering more 60fps games than say the X, that would give them a USP over MS in most games. According to a LOT of people, 60fps is more important than visual quality so offering a game like RDR2 (I know this will be out long before the PS5 but using it as an example) at 4k/60 compared to 4k/30 on the X would be a major reason to buy. MS at the moment may have say 4k/30 vs the Pro's 1440/30 and with additional benefits above just resolution, but that's maybe more of a 'minor' reason. I know most of us will be 'satisfied' with 1440/30 (or equivalent in Pixel count but utilising CB to boost sharpness) because that's the 'best' we can play the upcoming games - like God of War, Last of Us 2 etc. Of course they will still look great but as an owner of a 4k TV, I know they could look and run better too. I bet no-one would watch SD if you can watch the HD version. I doubt anyone would watch HD if 1440p was available (assuming you had a 4k TV of course) but if a 4k version is available, that looks better than all the others. Why would you watch 1080/24 football for example if you have access to 4k/50? The same goes for gaming too. I know Last of Us looks great - even on a PS3, but the PS4 version looks better. The PS4 Pro version looks better again. It doesn't mean that the PS3 version is now 'bad' or unplayable because its not even full HD, but given the choice of 720/30 or 4k/60, I bet everyone would choose 4k/60 - even if they had a 1080p TV - especially if it super-sampled down.

Now I know the PS4 still has life in it but its also not able to offer every game at a full HD or 60fps - even the Pro can't deliver a full HD and locked 60 with a lot of games (those that offer a 60fps mode - not those capped to 60fps on base hardware). We also see a number of Pro enhanced games that are only full HD so it shows that the games are moving ahead of the consoles hardware capability. It was clear before when console versions of games were capped to 30fps but the fact they can't even hold stable resolutions either shows that the hardware is stretched beyond capacity and that is only going to increase over time. Another reason why I think Sony will release a console sooner rather than later. What's the betting that Soul Calibre runs at less than 900p on PS4 and at 1080p on Pro. I know GTSport looks great but that's running at 2x900p (1600x1800p) which actually means its rendering less than a native 1440p game would - also proves why CB is a better option Naughty Dog! Point is though, the games are not running at the standards to which they 'could' run, not consistent with resolution or frame rates etc Despite that fact, the PS4 still sells but I still think Sony will want to bring out its 4k beast sooner - before the Pro/PS4 end up at 1080/720 respectively.

@get2sammyb Agreed. Japan has such minor relevance to the PlayStation business nowadays outside of software so I don't see Switch's success there changing Sony's plans. Weak sales there are made-up (and more) by incredibly strong sales in Europe. Attempting to recapture the Japanese market may well have a negative impact elsewhere.

A lot has been made in the gaming media of the Switch's success - which is odd considering that for a Nintendo handheld it is on track sales-wise - but the PlayStation 4 has almost stealthily continued with its sales trajectory and will certainly break the 100 million barrier. Has there been any evidence that the Switch has taken potential sales from other systems in Europe or North America?

I reckon if Sony have any sense they will just continue with what they've been doing - strong, well designed and affordable hardware backed up by great first-party exclusives. Unlike Nintendo, third party is not something that needs to be of concern. I don't think they'll make another handheld. I love the Vita but that ship has sailed and they can't support two systems at once. As for the PS5 2020 is a good time and it will hopefully be fully backwards compatible with the PS4.

I don't really know what to make of the new boss at PlayStation. Could well point to a more service orientated future, but we won't know til it happens.

There's no way you're going to win the Japanese market back again in a major way. Consoles are dead over there. Switch is a handheld over there moreso than over here.

The Switch shouldn't change anything to Sony to be honest.

@BAMozzy Is that true about gt sports resolution? I have it set up for performance on my pro. My experience is that I havent noticed any dropped frames in circuit mastery mode which Im currently playing and the resolution looks 1080p to me. Whilst playing on a 20 car grid in the mclaren vision car it does drop frames but in all fairness thats a full grid of 3500bhp cars with sparks flying everywhere (its pretty ridiculous tbh).

I will test it in the other mode which boosts resolution but wont hold the frame rate. It could be interesting!

@JohnnyShoulder I had the worst Christmas ever when my present was a Subbuteo football team without the pitch or ball. Sony did a lot better than that!

@get2sammyb I hope they stick with vr. Im struggling to enjoy normal games now. The vive has been updated as shown at CES so Ive got my fingers crossed psvr 2 has all the improvements you mentioned in another thread (frame rate, less wires etc).

@Hapuc me too!

@mookysam Thats a great point about backwards compatibility. I suppose it depends if they follow the ps4 path, although I do like the idea of custom chips to set the console apart from a PC. I understand why they would be reluctant to do that again.

@Kidfried Im not so sure. I think being in Japan they will see more of the Switch influence than we will. Lets not forget one of Sonys big intellectual properties has been the walkman!

@themcnoisy If you opt for resolution GTSport runs at 1800p using chequerboard rendering to achieve that. That means the game is running essentially at 1600x1800 (instead of 3200x1800 that Native CB is). In terms of pixel count, that is actually lower than native 1440p - 2560x1440=3686400, 1800CB is 1600x1800=2880000 and 4K CB is 1920x2160=4147200 so 1440 sits in the middle between 1800 CB and 4k CB

I much prefer 1800CB to native 1440p as that at least gives a sharper and overall better image from my seating distance. It may not be 'pixel perfect as native 1800p is but considering how close it comes to a native resolution, the benefits outweigh the negatives.

However, when you consider that native 1080p is 2073600 pixels, 1800CB only represents around 40% of an increase in pixels - not that much compared to the 400% resolution increase from 1080p to 4k in screen size and a long way from the 8294400 pixels that make up a 4k screen.

That is probably why a number of Pro games are under 1440p. The Pro has built in object tracking into the GPU so it can better pull the pixels forward from the previous frame to fill in the 'gaps' to reconstruct the image. I know the render may be half the horizontal width but its not rendering one side then the other but spacing them out in a CB pattern and then pulling pixels from the previous frame to make a full image. I would have been OK with the Pro if the 'lowest' results were 1800p CB but I find it 'disappointing' that many games are 1440p or less. The equivalent for 1080p would be like the PS4 delivering 720p or less - especially if it was classing itself as a '1080p' gaming console. 1800p is the equivalent of 900p and the XB1 was criticised for not hitting the full 1080p so I don't see why the Pro should be exempt - just because its a Playstation.

This is also another reason why I think Sony would be wanting to build a proper 4k console. I totally get why the Pro was built the way it was. Its built as a half way step - although its not quite 'half' way with the RAM and CPU getting a 'small' boost comparative to the PS4. If Sony had built the Pro as a full 4k console, added in the 'expected' 4k HDR Bluray and maybe features like Atmos and Game VRR, then a PS5 wouldn't seem like much of an upgrade. Buying the PS5 to get full 4k in the same games the Pro was delivering full 4k would not seem like a generational leap. When you look at the PS3 to PS4 for example, the games jumped from around 720p to 1080p - that's the same as jumping from 1440p to 4k.

Another factor of course is the fact that the Pro is very much tied to the PS4. If a game can't run on the PS4, it won't be released so no Pro only games. If the power difference had been so much larger, delivering full 4k, it would probably be harder for Sony to justify why its not being supported. By the time games are having to run at say 720p on a PS4, the Pro wouldn't be delivering UHD - it can't. 720p (1280x720=921600) is less than 50% of 1080p and the Pro's GPU is roughly double - so it should be just enough to offer full 1080p at that point. If a game therefore can't run at 720p on a PS4, the Pro almost certainly won't run it at 1080p and Sony stipulated that the Pro must run at 1080p or above. Therefore justifying why a game won't release on the Pro only. Of course we are few years away from that point it seems.

A year though can be a long time in gaming. A PS5 in 2019, if the rumours are true, is still nearly 2yrs away (assuming Sony go for a Nov release - that's 22months away). The PS3 was discontinued nearly 2yrs ago and the PS1 went on until the year the PS3 released, the PS2 went on until the year the PS4 released. Both the PS1 and PS2 were discontinued in the early months of the years the next gen above the gen that 'supposedly' replaced them. Sony have a history of making two generations of console and ending the weakest in the year the new Gen releases. The PS3 though was discontinued in Oct 2016 (NA) and early 2017 in JP. This is longest Sony has gone without making 2 generations of console since the first Playstation when they obviously didn't have two generations - until the PS2 launched of course.

@BAMozzy I notice the difference when its at 1440p (compared to 1080/900) then the difference becomes less obvious at hogher resolutions.

Thanks for the rundown I quite like that resolution as its much sharper and as a developer on pspro I would really go for 60fps at 1800cb resolution (I think infamous ss runs at that rez) and anything else is a bonus. At only 40% more pixels they then could spend the additional power on a few extra effects maybe?

So heres a question to everyone. What big online service will we see next from Sony?

@themcnoisy It looks as though some of the resources are used to track objects and reconstruct the image. The GPU is around 2.3x more powerful than the base PS4 but we don't see many 1080p games releasing as 4k CB which is 2x 1080p. That little extra, doesn't seem to be enough often enough to deliver 4k CB so we see 1800 CB instead. I know there are a few - like H:ZD for example. Maybe 1800p does allow a few 'extra' bells and whistles that bring the game up to standards. Maybe just boosting the resolution alone would show up the quality of shadows more so they also need to be improved a bit to bring them up to a similar visual standard. Infamous does use 1800p chequerboard rendering if you opt for the resolution mode - or 1080 (up to) 60fps if you opt for Performance mode.

As for what big online service we could see, who knows. They do seem to have the most obvious or at least a form of. The PSNow for example is their 'netflix' for gaming option. MS have Game Pass which is theirs. Both obviously have their PS+/Gold subscription which are basically the same too. If anything, Sony may revise the ones they have rather than add something new. I guess they could both include other media, like films and TV - either as a separate service or as part of a revision to the existing options.

I also think any big revision/change would only come if Sony can add Backwards Compatibility. PSNow can't exactly let you download games to your PS4 HDD and play from there unless they were to make the older Console(s) BC. Maybe if Sony do release a PS5, you could see a revision on the PS+ where Sony offer both PS4 and PS5 games - like MS do with XB360 and XB1 games - maybe even revise PSnow to allow you to download and play off HDD like Game Pass - but only if the PS5 has BC. Until then though, I struggle to see what other 'online' service they could offer. All the other options are more revisions of the current online services. I wouldn't mind seeing a 'discounted' PS+ that those with 'just' PS4's are only entitled to 'just' PS4 IGC games - a tiered structure but then some may just want online, some may just want PS3 games, some may just want PS3, PS4 and online and it could get more complicated especially as you have Vita and Store Discounts too which could also factor in to the tier structure.

Probably, and hopefully, more of the same.

Sony is doing fine. PS4 is selling silly numbers and has a hell of an upcoming line-up of games. And then they've got PS5 to announce.