Topic: Did Sony just take away the hype surrounding Microsoft xbox one x launch

@JoeBlogs I know that feeling. I admit that since the beginning of October, I will have bought 5 games, with a 6th coming soon after the release of the Xbox One X - all of which I have purchased with that console in mind and therefore haven't touched any of these yet - they are still in the sealed Cellophane packaging. I also purchase the Witcher 3 Season Pass on Xbox with the thought of playing these again on the 'X' - I bought and played all of these on the PS4. I am also considering getting Doom and TF2 - both of which I have on the PS4.

I am also looking forward to the Frozen Wilds which launches on the 7th Nov - the same day my X arrives. I do understand how difficult it can be to keep up with 'everything' you want to play with just 1 console let alone 2 or more. The good thing though, is that in times of 'lulls' there is usually something to play. If I am bored or want something 'different' from my PS4 collection, I have the Xbox and its library - inc any 'free' games that I may have added but not got round to.

Because I knew the X was coming, I had been very conservative with my 'free cash' this year. In fact until August, I had only bought two games and the Witcher 3 Season Pass in a sale. I also got a third but that was paid off last year. I made do with the games in my collection on both systems - although 90% of the time, it was on PS4 Pro. I hardly touched my XB1s (bought new a year ago - Gears 4 custom edition) and now that is being replaced. I tend to go in long phases - alternating between the two rather than swapping back and forth regularly but I like the option of having both - 6 free games a month (not that I always take advantage and download all) - never missing out on a 'deal' or Exclusive. This set-up has suited me for 20+ years - before the Xbox came along - even before Sony too - but since the N64/PS1 era, its been mostly consoles where as before, A 'computer/PC' was my 'main' gaming device with maybe a Gameboy as the 'other' but then when I passed my Driving Test, and mobile phones had a few games on them, I found handhelds lost their appeal. I had no need to pass time on a bus/train etc and if I wasn't sat playing games in front of a TV/Monitor, I was doing household jobs, raising kids etc. Now all my gaming is in front of a TV - a 4k HDR TV and like I said, I still have a 'big' catalogue of Xbox and Playstation games. I would still have my PS1/2 era games too if my PS3 Phat hadn't YLOD and therefore lost BC with older games. My son had my old PS2 after his broke so I gave him all my PS games consoles, my youngest had my N64 and games etc but still have my PS3 and games, all my Xbox, Xbox 360 games and consoles - even have a Gameboy Color somewhere...

@FullbringIchigo What people are missing is that those 'Exclusives' are only available to Windows 10 PC owners, Only available to those that sign-up (like creating an Xbox Profile) and can only be purchased via the Microsoft Store. Its like buying an Xbox but only able to buy MS games to play on it via their Xbox store.
Essentially, what MS are doing with their games is making you play on a 'virtual' Xbox. You can either buy a ready built console that you have to create a 'profile' or buy Windows 10 and have a 'virtual' Xbox. Its still an 'Xbox' exclusive essentially but whether you play on the 'physical' Xbox that MS built for you or you play on a 'virtual Xbox' with your own specs but must buy Windows 10 (if you haven't got it), Sign up to Microsoft and create your own 'Xbox Profile' and your own 'Xbox gamertag' and then buy their Exclusives - either from the Microsoft store on your PC or the Microsoft store on your Xbox. You can't just go to Steam or Game and buy these. MS get maximum profit from them with no 'middlemen'. People need to remember that whilst MS may not have built the PC you are gaming on, you are still required to own the Microsoft operating system and a Xbox profile to play. If I were to buy a Win10 gaming PC, Sign in with my Xbox profile, I could instantly play any game that I bought on my Xbox in a 'virtual' Xbox on that Microsoft running PC. Regardless of the 'Hardware' its still Microsoft and its still 'Xbox'. I really don't get why people cannot grasp that its still Microsoft and the Console, right from the outset going back to the first - was built to be a PC gaming device in console form - stripping away all the unnecessary PC functionality to be more 'gaming' focused. The Xbox was built around the PC API and the name came about because the 'original' idea was to make a DirectX Box. The console was intended to be the first game system built like a PC and to bring all of the flexibility and power of a gaming rig to the console market. The system would run on Windows 2000, making it easy for traditional PC software developers to work within the console’s architecture. Its also why it was the first with an built in HDD too. The initial response at launch was quite skeptical of what they saw as nothing more than a fancy PC dressed up like a gaming console

I think its ridiculous for MS to create/publish games for its Microsoft powered 'console' but not for their Microsoft powered PC gamers. I am sure if Sony had its own PC OS, they too would support that with 'games' as well - extending both their user-base and sales/profits.

As to why someone may want the X - not everyone wants to game on a PC, be in the PC gaming environment or have the space/room for a PC set-up. I know you can connect a PC to a TV but that seems counter-intuitive as most TV's only accept a 60hz signal at best. Even if a game is running at 120hz, every other frame is never displayed. Also if a TV can run at 120hz or 240hz even, The TV often interpolates those 'extra frames' rather than displaying 'accurately' these. You still only get 60hz actual images/frames - the rest are artificially created. Another aspect is Lag and response times. I know the Best OLEDs have incredible response times - beating monitors but their input lag - even at 20ms is double that of a monitor. OLEDs are not necessarily the 'best' for non-gaming use either - thanks to ABL (Automatic Brightness Limiter) which means that 'reading' a page of black text on a white background looks very dim by comparison to a monitor and 'colours' change too depending on how 'bright' the whole screen is. If you have a 'bright' red (say 500nits) in the top corner on a solid black background. As you 'enlarge' that red, the colour drops and becomes dimmer dropping down to 100-150nits - so not good for image correction or photoshop/illustrator applications. Of course, if its just games you want, then that may not matter but its something to consider otherwise.

I know Consoles are not 'plug and play' so much anymore and with HDR added in, its more important to set them up correctly - make sure their RGB output matches the Display properly etc. But they are more simple than PC in a lot of ways. You don't have to 'optimise' them yourself, don't have to make sure the correct and updated drivers are their, know that the other people in the MP lobbies are on similar hardware - you won't get such a vast difference in frame rates, visual quality etc. I know its a bit different now with these more powerful consoles but you know the MP frame rate caps are the same.

As to why someone with a 'decent' PC may consider an X, it maybe because they don't always want to be sat at a desk playing games. They may want to be able to sit on the Sofa in front of the TV and carry on from where they left off on the PC - on those cross-play games anyway. May want the 'free' games that come from console subscriptions. May want the 4k HDR Bluray player and Dolby Atmos audio and want the same 'visual' quality that their PC delivers for gaming - after all the cost isn't that much more than buying a dedicated 4k HDR player - some are even more expensive too. It maybe that they don't have a 4k Monitor and a decent GPU to deliver 4k visuals at playable frame rates, but the X is cheaper than buying a GTX1080 and they have a 4k HDR TV as that has 'more' use than buying a decent 4k HDR monitor. Therefore they can pick to play in 4k HDR on the console or 1080/1440 SDR on their PC but with 'higher frame rates'. In fact there are a lot of reasons why they may want to go with an X to compliment their PC set up. I can also see why a PC gamer may opt for a PS4/Pro or Switch instead but its not necessarily as B&W as some make out. Owning a 'gaming' PC does not necessarily mean the X is 'pointless' as it can offer flexibility on where you play, a better match in quality visuals between the two and the added advantage of doubling up as a 4k HDR Bluray player. Most HDR monitors are also NOT HDR10 standard - topping out at around 500nits. For an LCD panel (as these are), that's short of the 1000nits that HDR10 standard LCD's display. Therefore, HDR will look more impressive on a TV and, like I said, it probably makes more sense for most people to upgrade their TV first as a TV is often Larger, more useful (for bluray, streaming, STB's, Freeview/freesat, on-demand etc). You are more likely to have a better audio set-up for TV's too

@BAMozzy I hope I didn't come across as MS bashing, I think the X looks great, they do have some good games and backward compatibility is an awesome Idea. For me as a consumer who isn't really loyal to one brand over another, as a PS4 owner, I personally don't feel the need to get an XB1 because there is nothing that makes me feel I should invest all the cash into another console.

At Paris games week, I think Sony played a strong hand in appealing to their faithful and they are reaping the rewards of some major investment in content. It has become a major contributing factor in this gens sales lead.

I am still interested in Microsofts long term plan, especially if they do away with generations. I don't get people who say the XB1 isn't a success. It has still sold a ton and got good titles.

@BAMozzy hey i'm not saying the X doesn't have a place but my point was there are other and better options out there that may affect it's sales, the Play Anywhere feature for P.C gives 4K gaming for those who want it the XB1 can also play the games the X can and both can play the XBOX exclusives even if you have to buy them for windows 10, nearly all modern P.Cs will have that anyway

my point is i think MS have created their own competition in their own market and it may affect the sales of the X

@Rudy_Manchego I don't think you in particular have been excessively negative to MS or the Xbox in general. I may come across as more defensive and more like an Xbox fanboy but that's predominantly down to the excessive 'Pro-Sony' and MS bashing that PS fanboys sprout. I can totally respect a reasoned discussion and a valid argument to explain someones stance. You yourself can appreciate what something like the X offers and reason why its not necessarily right for yourself at this moment.

Its the hypocritical and ignorant comments that annoys me the most. I remember a lot of the PS fanboys 'justifying' why the PS4 was the best 'despite' the lack of 'quality' AAA exclusives - most of the responses were 1080p vs 900p more than 'price'. I also defended PS4 when the Xbox fanboys would say the comments that PS4 fanboys are saying now - the more power but no games to play argument. The same thing that Xbox fanboys responded with back then, that they would rather have 900p and more games, I see the PS4 fanboys responding with now, rather have 'Pro' and more games than 4k and no games. Its tit for tat, hypocritical and 'ignorant' too. As we know, the Xbox and PS4 receive more releases a month than the Switch has been getting (on average) yet there is this 'belief' that Xbox has no games. If its just AAA big blockbuster exclusives that 'count' as games releasing, then you could go months on both PS4 and Xbox without getting any games. Also, if a lot of those PS4 'fanboys' who justified their purchase of the PS4 by the 'power' and 'resolution/visual' advantage that offered over the XB1, then they should be buying the X over the Pro.

I certainly wasn't saying that Sony's Paris was anything less than Strong. A very solid line-up to cater to their user base. Ghost of Tsushima was a big surprise - even if you predicted Sucker Punch would reveal their new Project. I bet no-one expected this from them. The point I was trying to make though is that it didn't do a lot IF this was meant to derail the hype of the upcoming X. If you were on the fence before Paris, you would probably still be on the fence after. If you seriously considering the X before, you would still be considering it after. There wasn't enough to plant a seed of doubt, to pull people in to PS4 instead of the X. If your already invested in PS4, its solid but it's not enough to affect the Hype of the Xbox. If it had, then those who were 'hyped' would now be 'doubting' the X and those sat on the fence would be pulled into Sony's Hype. That was the point I was trying to make. Had they announced the Price drop we expected, then maybe some of those who were on the fence or looking to buy an X may well of opted to buy a Pro instead - that's when you know that Sony had an impact on Xbox X hype. At the end of the show, most of what was shown we already knew about and I don't know about you, but when they said they were done and about to show their 'final' game, I was left with an 'is that it' feeling - a bit like E3 2017 too. Considering some of the games that have been absent, like Dreams, Wild, Death Stranding, FF7 remake, Shenmue 3 - maybe Kingdom Hearts 3 and RDR2 as well, they could have given us a completely 'different' line-up to E3 making it more varied.

As for MS's long term plan, I think it makes more sense to go the iterative upgrade path - every 3-4yrs bringing out a substantial upgrade on power and phasing out of the weakest. If, like Sony, they go the 'generational' format, the 'iterative' hardware has a significantly shorter shelf life. When Sony do decide to end the PS4, the Pro will end too so its life span is curtailed by 3yrs. I also think it would be such a waste if the X is held back by the XB1. In theory, a lot of games should scale down - after all, HD is only a quarter of 4k but the fact its 'struggling' to even deliver 900p in some games does make me think its days are limited - which if that then affects the X, the X could be over before its a couple of years old. However, if they go the 'iterative' route with a 3-4yr cycle, each console then has a potential 6-8yr run and you always have a high end and low end option. The X maybe the high end option now, but in 3/4yrs it becomes the low-end for the next 3/4yrs before being phased out. Also, when ever a 'new' console arrives, you never get 'launch' exclusives that means you have to upgrade to play and then have to wait for the console to grow so MP games are 'full' - something that affected games like CoD Ghosts and BF4 - not only split by platform but also buy generation.

I am not saying that IF MS go that route, that is the 'best' way forward. It can affect design choices if you have to consider compatibility with previous iteration(s) and generations. Sony for example could opt to go with nVidia/intel for the PS5, completely new architecture etc being totally free to build the console for the future instead of feeling like they have to cling on and be compatible with the past. Its clear to me that Sony had more of an eye on the future when they gave us the Pro. Its not a radical upgrade - literally just another PS4 GPU bolted into the PS4 and a few minor tweaks to the speeds. That minor upgrade is enough to make a difference on current gen, but not enough to affect a next gen console. Lets be honest, and not criticising, the Pro is more a 1440p gaming console but only designed to increase the resolution output - not the quality of textures, visual settings etc. Therefore a PS5, offering full 4k with 4k assets is an instantly noticeable generational jump visually. Add in a 4k HDR Bluray (next gen player), Dolby Atmos (next gen Audio quality), Game VRR (FreeSync for Consoles - a gamechanger) etc etc - in every area, it represents a 'next' gen upgrade over the current PS4 & Pro. If MS were to bring out a 'Next' gen Xbox, what can it offer that the X 'doesn't'? A better CPU for better frame rates but if you are trying to sell that and showing the side by side image of a 4k HDR X game next to a 4k HDR 'nextbox' game, people will be asking why should they buy? Don't forget, we bought our PS4 for full HD over the PS3's 720p HD so 1440p to 4k is the same incremental upgrade in resolution.

@FullbringIchigo It may affect sales of the X but that is offset by more sales of the games. Most console manufacturers make very little on consoles if anything at all.There is more profit to be made in sales of games. I bet they make more by selling games to PC owners than they lose in less consoles sold. It automatically also gives them a MUCH larger install base too and bigger than Sony can ever hope to reach with its PS4.

@BAMozzy metro looked good at the e3 showing I had an xbox one 2013 edition bought it January 2017 sold it in June 2017 in hope to buy xbox one x so here we are I cannot do it I cannot justify
The parchase all I was doing was watching youtube on xbox when I had it.

Phil Spencer said that he expected to sell more xbox one s because xbox one x was limited and only certain type of people would buy the X.

@StArHaMa Metro looked stunning in 4k if you get the chance to view it in 4k on youtube. Its one of the games I am most looking forward to - although I know those with a PS4 Pro are likely to get some 'enhanced' version too. As someone with a 4k HDR TV, both the Pro and X are 'easily' justified in my opinion. Its not just the 'enhanced' games either as both the Pro and X offer a 'boost' to non-enhanced game performance too. As I have a decent library of both PS4 and XB1 games, the fact that a lot use dynamic scaling and/or unlocked frame rates, the extra 'boost' ensures these games keep to a higher resolution and/or frame rate performance. Granted it may not boost them above 1080p or above 30/60fps if that's the max cap, but its still improves these games. As we are seeing more games now not offering full HD or locked frame rates, the iterative hardware, even for 1080p TV owners are basically guaranteeing that your games will be Full HD (or better).

As for sales, its not surprising that Phil Spencer expects to sell more XB1s consoles - same as Mark Cerny expects to sell more PS4's too. Even at the end of the generation, the numbers sold will favour the base consoles - not just because they have been on the market for years longer. Its cheaper and there are still more HD TV's in circulation. Maybe in year or two's time, if/when 4k TV's are more affordable for all, the iterative consoles could overtake the base consoles in terms of monthly figures but they are never going to catch up with the base model numbers. Sony for example had 50/60m units sold by the time the Pro launched and the XB1 has a 35m (ish) headstart on the X. Chances are, Sony will release a PS5 in a year or 3 and that will be many peoples first '4k' console and probably affect sales of both Pro and X consoles too.

@JoeBlogs I’m with you, dude - as cool as the OneX looks, my backlog on PS4 and Vita will keep me going until PS5 for sure, and we still have about 5 new releases in 2018 I know I’ll buy. I even have a backlog on PS3 that I have basically just given up on. If I add another console, I’d have to either quit work or give up sleeping.

I have never owned any Xbox system, because I never felt the need to own one.
The 3 major reasons are:

-Another Subscription service. Whilst not mandatory, I would probably be forced into it, because I would want the full experience. I'm very frugal with my money, so adding another subscription service to my yearly expenditures is out of the question.

-Space. Don't know where I would put it. Having 2 'similar' games consoles within my media set up seems excessive.

-Lack of exclusives. The only MS exclusives that interest me are Ori and Cuphead. Can't justify a new system for those 2 games.

I don't care for prettier graphics or a smoother gameplay experience- I'm content with the PS4.
Having said that, between Xbox game pass and the OneX being backwards compatible I'm the most interested in Xbox I've ever been. I'm a console gamer so the fact that MS exclusives are on PC are irrelevant to me.

It's still a hard sell. If I end up buying another gaming system this gen it'll likely be the Switch.

Xbox One is largely irrelevant anyway. If we lived in a magical world where PS4 didn't exist then you'd need an Xbox One or you'd miss out on most of the biggest games. If you've already got a PS4 and you don't care about Halo, Forza or Gears, then there's no reason to buy one. So even though an Xbox One is undoubtedly a better console than a Switch, a Switch is a better option if you've already got a PS4.

@johncalmc As someone who has owned an Xbox and PS2, an XB360 and PS3, an XB1 and PS4 and next week a Pro and XB1x, I really don't think the Xbox is irrelevant. Granted the majority of games are available on both but that can also be an advantage to owning both. Pick up the game with the best deals, best price, best visuals/performance etc. As you know, PS+ offers great prices but so does Xbox Gold and more often than not, the deals are very different. Then of course you have different games offered free too so whilst one may be selling the game at £20 in a sale, the other is giving it away Free. Then of course there are situations (like Rise of the Tomb Raider, PUBG etc) which give you the opportunity to play the game a year early and situations like Destiny and CoD where you get DLC or extra content early. Either way, you can take advantage of eithers 'deals' without missing out just because the console you picked doesn't have the same 'deals'. Both have their strengths and weaknesses too so you can take advantage of boths strengths and minimise or avoid their weaknesses. Both companies also seem to have a different philosophy too with Sony purely focused on the 'future' and MS wanting to preserve the past - hence Backwards Compatibility. Visuals and game performance are 'important' - performance more so. I would much prefer to have the choice to play a multi-platform game on the system that handles it the best rather than play an 'unstable' or visually more problematic version. I am not referring 'just' to resolution either but the game with less screen tear, less pop-in, better quality visual settings, smoother, more consistent and/or higher frame rates. Even if I had just a 1080p TV, I would look to buy a Pro and/or X to alleviate a lot of these issues regardless.

In many ways there are a lot of similarities but there are enough differences too. Its like saying because you bought CoD, Battlefield is irrelevant, because you bought SF5, Tekken, MK10, Injustice etc is irrelevant. If the Switch continues to get a lot of the games that are on PS4 - Doom, Wolfenstein, Skyrim, Fifa and all the 'smaller' games like Snake pass etc, will the Switch be irrelevant too?

Quite a few of the features that PS4 have added after launch were first on an XB1 and one of the most requested features is available on Xbox - ability to change your Gamertag. Not saying that Xbox haven't copied aspects from Sony either but each makes each other better. Even if you do opt for 1 company specifically, that doesn't make the other irrelevant and often that other helps improve the console you choose to make the overall experience much better.

@BAMozzy It's not like saying any of those things, though. Street Fighter and Tekken are fundamentally different products with different appeals. The Xbox One in it's post-DRM-back-peddling state is basically a less powerful PS4 with less games. I'm not trying to be dismissive of it, but rather just boiling it down to brass tacks.

Now, let's say you absolutely love Halo. Then you need to get yourself an Xbox One. Get it, play Halo, have a blast. You're never gonna play it on PS4. But with the vast majority of games being multiplatform, and Sony having way, way, way, way more exclusives than Xbox, chances are, the PS4 is a better option for you.

So, once you've got to that point, then you have to ask yourself, "Do I need an Xbox One?" And I think for a lot of people the answer is no. That's why I say it's irrelevant. It doesn't do enough differently to the PS4 and it doesn't have enough games to justify itself as a purchase for anybody other than the ultra-hardcore gamers who buy everything, and the big Xbox fans that love Halo, Gears and Forza.

The Switch is a different beast entirely because it's nothing like the competition, and the quality and the number of exclusives you can't play anywhere else are far more impressive than anything on Xbox. So while I would say you'd certainly get more use out of an Xbox One if you didn't have a PS4 just for all of the multiplatform games, if you've already got a PS4, a Switch seems like a much better option for a second console.

@johncalmc I agree that the XB1 is a weaker console and if you are looking for the best place to play all games, not bothered about Halo, Forza, Gears, State of Decay, Cuphead, Ori, Sea of Thieves, Quantum Break, Recore, Sunset Overdrive, Rare Replay etc then its not worth picking up an XB1 - well maybe if you want the 4k HDR Bluray player and the opportunity to play the 'fewer but still some great' exclusives - all for £200 then its not irrelevant.

Then of course, if you have a 4k HDR TV, the X may well offer 'more' than the Pro. Its not just the Exclusives then as virtually all new, and some older games will look and/or run better as well as the added bonus of 4k HDR Bluray player, Dolby Atmos audio quality. At least with the numerous Exclusives that Sony has, it will stop it gathering dust. Sony may have way way more as you put it, the majority of which are 'indie' and now VR titles - not belittling them - just fact but overall, the Xbox offers a higher number of games - if you add in the 400+ Backwards Compatible titles to the equation. If anything, the X 'could' (and I say could) be the equivalent of the PC and PS4 combination for some people.

People ask why I don't buy a PC - primarily because if I did, I would still need a PS for the PS exclusives. That being said, the X now could be the equivalent for 'console' gamers of the 'High-end' PC and Pro combination. Is a PC irrelevant if you own a PS4? I think not. The vast majority of games are available on PC too. The PC also offers a lot of the 'older' games the predate the PS4 (like the X with its BC) and a lot of them at 'better' specs/performance (again like the X). In some cases, it may actually be 'cheaper' to buy an X for 4k gaming than to upgrade your PC, monitor etc - especially if you bought a 4k TV for a Pro or to watch 4k film/TV content - and again the X offers 4k HDR Bluray too...

I can understand that for you, the Xbox maybe irrelevant for your set of circumstances - that the PS4 offers 'more' that you want and are interested in but that doesn't mean the Xbox is irrelevant to others or in general. Personally, I can't say that the majority of Sony's vast list of exclusives appeal. I think Forza is better than Driveclub and GTS - especially 7 and I can't think of any game that comes close to Forza Horizon. I have no interest in Bloodborne, the Order, until Dawn, Detroit, Dreams, Persona, Ni No Kuni, Nier Gravity Rush etc. Never been a fan of God of War either - although the new one had me interested but then Paris game-play annoyed me. Killzone was mediocre as was Infamous - especially compared to their PS3 releases. Granted H:ZD is probably my favourite Exclusive this generation on any platform and Days Gone excites me too (as does Ghost) but on average, over the past 4yrs, I have bought probably similar numbers of exclusives on BOTH systems yet I have bought more multi-platform games in a year than I have PS4/XB1 Exclusives combined. Judging by sales figures, most exclusives don't sell to 95% of their user base so its not just me that is 'selective'.

Both the XB1s and X offer 4k HDR bluray playback, Dolby Atmos audio - not just in film but in games too. Granted the S can't compete when it comes to HD gaming and offering the 'best' visual and performance as the PS4 - although does beat it on media functionality and support as well as number of games too - if you add in BC. If it was 'just' about gaming, I would have NO hesitation in recommending the PS4 over the S though. When it comes to 4k - not just gaming, I would position the Pro at the bottom of the pile and recommend the X (below a PC but still above the Pro) as it will make the majority of games look and play superior. Granted the PS4 may have more 'exclusives' to choose from but chances are, if you own a PS4, you can still play these at I expect 1080p with HDR too if they appeal. Like I said most seem to appeal to only 5% or less of the Potential user base. I know its not the same 5% with 'every' game but its not a 'high' percentage. Most people buy a LOT more multi-platform games a year and the X will do 4k in these better than the Pro would - just like the PS4 takes the crown at HD level, the X 'should' take the crown (as far as consoles go) at 4k level - at least until Sony release its PS5 which I fully expect to deliver a better 4k image over the X, Dolby Atmos audio, 4k HDR bluray and Game VRR - like the X and possibly more Exclusives too - eventually. Sony has the advantage of more studio's but MS no doubt will keep its 'Exclusives' from the OG era onwards via BC.

I get it that you are PS fanboy and that your opening statement, the fact that the XB1 is less powerful PS4 to a degree is partially valid but if that's the case, then the PS4 Pro is a significantly weaker, much more so than the difference between the XB1 and PS4, Xbox One X - just boiling it down to Brass Tacks... That difference is far more apparent - more than 900vs1080p with the same visual setting quality, same standard of textures etc. If it mattered in the previous 4yrs, it doesn't stop mattering now that Sony are the weaker system. The Xbox X will no doubt be 'relevant' to Sony as they look to the PS5, look to beat it in all areas or at least match it in a few (like Bluray player, audio quality, Game VRR etc). Its also relevant to anyone looking for the best 4k gaming experience on console - for the majority of games that they will be looking to buy.

@BAMozzy I'm not talking about me, personally. I'm talking in general. For me, personally, I don't really like many of the Sony first party games either. I'm talking generally, all things being equal, unless you're a fan of a particular Xbox exclusive, by virtue of the fact that the PS4 has a LOT more games, it's basically a no brainer which one you'd pick. My point was that the Xbox One doesn't really have any unique selling points beyond those handful of games, and so if they're not for you, there's little reason to get one.

That's just basic stuff. Not really fanboy propaganda.

The X does change things up a bit I suppose for the ultra-niche, spec focused crowd, but then there's probably not enough people in that demographic to make any tangible difference.

Like @johncalmc I feel the X won't turn things around, except for a handful of hardcore gamer. Both the PS4 and the Switch have got a lot of momentum. Without system-selling exclusives it will be hard to get in between those two.

@johncalmc That Niche crowd will grow as more and more upgrade from 1080p TV's. You could argue that the PS3/XB360 was 'niche' at its launch because of how expensive HD TV's were and how little content in HD there was. When a new 'next' gen console, its always a 'niche' product and the Specs are the main focus - although often its more what those specs offer over the previous gen. They don't 'fly' out the gate in terms of sales either at launch and sales of the previous gen still continue. The only difference here though is that you don't have to buy the 'next gen' Xbox for example to get the latest games with 'next gen' visuals and a console with 'next gen' features. Point is that 'Niche' market as you call it, is a rapidly expanding market and its that market that Sony will also look to with its PS5 when that launches. It won't be aimed at the HD crowd - not primarily and have all the 'next gen' features the X has - with probably a better APU. It will be looking to bring 4k HDR visuals and media playback, no doubt Dolby Atmos audio etc too.

I would say tat 4k HDR Bluray player is a unique selling feature - as is Dolby Atmos audio. Game VRR is certainly a next gen feature but as no TV yet supports it, its probably not high on many peoples list yet as a 'selling point'. The fact it offers 4k HDR with High end PC quality visuals is a selling point, most powerful console is a selling point - its what Sony used for the past 4yrs. Its not just Halo or Forza or Gears for that matter either. Only one Gears and Halo game (unless you count the spin offs like Wars for example) have released so far and then of course the Xbox has games like Ryse, Quantum Break, Recore, Cuphead, PUBG (probably one of the biggest games right now coming in November at 4k on the X), Sea of Thieves, Rare Replay, Sunset Overdrive etc too.

Backwards Compatibility is also a Unique selling point as well. Knowing that any game you do buy will not become obsolete or unplayable in the future as well as accessing many games that you 'lost' by moving up with the times is a unique selling point. Cross platform play may well be a selling point to some as well.

Of course the current demographic maybe more HD focused but its still the same demographic that the Pro was aimed at too - just the X happens to be much better at delivering on that promise. 1200-1800p is NOT dynamic 4k. At most CB or native 4k - even if it drops a bit under heavy load - like down to 1800p at the most can be classified as 'dynamic' 4k - like Doom on the PS4 is Dynamic 1080p but can drop to 900p. That's like calling the XB1 a 'dynamic' 1080p console - although it does have more games at 1080p than the Pro has at 4k even inc CB4k and it doesn't have games below 720p (equivalent to 1440p on 4k screens) or games with 540p (SD) textures/assets (not unless you count some of the BC games). Some Pro enhanced games are only 1080p too (Tekken, Dirt 4 for example). Like I said the most 'complete' 4k capable console on the market is the X and that is a selling point.

I agree that the demographic seeking 4k gaming is a minority currently but that demographic is also the where the biggest growth is too. Its only going to grow whilst the HD demographic reduces. The X maybe at the 'cutting edge' as far as consoles go but there is no doubt that Sony will beat it at some point and target the same 'demographic'. Believe it or not - its not 'ultra niche' or as 'spec focused' as you make out. Its exactly the same audience the Pro was aimed at and that was 'successful' even when there were 'fewer' 4k ready gamers. The actual specs are not always important but what those specs mean in terms of gaming. What the difference in quality those 'numbers' offer. It was the same when the PS4/XB1 launched, same when the Pro launched and will be the same when the PS5 launches too.

@BAMozzy But by the time 4K and HDR are ubiquitous, we'll have moved on to the next generation of consoles and Xbox One X will already be outclassed in literally the only category it's top of.

@johncalmc Possibly. I really do think Sony will bring its PS5 out in Nov 2018 and I would be very surprised if Sony wait longer than Nov 2019 - in other words between 1 to 2 years from now - certainly don't think we will be kept waiting until 2020 - the PS4 will be 7yrs old by then and its already showing its age. That's not me being negative towards Playstation as I think the XB1 is struggling more and can't see it lasting as long as the PS4.

I know the PS4 is still a very capable console - especially with First Party games. Uncharted 4 and Horizon: Zero Dawn are testament to that but then Uncharted 4 had to drop to 30fps in its campaign and 900p in its MP to get 60fps. When you look at 3rd party games, some are 900p or less (Tekken 7 864p - only 720/60 on XB1 though). We are seeing more games using Dynamic scaling as well as unlocked frame rates so we don't even get a stable PQ or game-play. Point is that 'both' consoles are seeing 'drops' in resolution, frame rates, visual quality settings - not necessarily all of these areas in all games but never the less a decline as games become more demanding for resources. Its not like last gen (PS3/XB360) when devs had to learn the system and as they gained experience, they got more and more out of the hardware before plateauing for a while and then a decline and then fewer games that would run on it.

I know the PS4 is only 4yrs old and Q42018 may seem too soon but the fact that games are becoming more complex, requiring more resources and VRAM so making more and more 'sacrifices' to run on the base hardware. Exclusives are built with the specific hardware so designed from the outset to fall within the parameters of that system. I guess they could use a Temporal solution to achieve a higher PQ - like the Pro does. Checkerboard rendering has been used successfully on Killzone and Rainbow Six: Seige so they could use this method to increase the resolution, visual settings and/or frame rates on the base console to give it a bit more of a shelf life so to speak - to maintain a certain standard PQ for longer. I really do think the XB1 though is more in need of using techniques like this as we are seeing more games under 900p.

The launch of a 'next' gen console has 'never' made the old console obsolete and the PS3 had a 10yr life span - an extra 3yrs (or 3.5yrs in Japan) before it was discontinued. I can't see Sony waiting until the last moment to release a next gen console and almost forcing people to upgrade to continue receiving new releases. You want to give people a couple of years cross-over period - a time when both are on the market, both receiving new releases and gradually phase out the weakest as fewer and fewer games release on it. Its happened EVERY time - although Nintendo appear to have had a very small cross-over phase as the WiiU was discontinued before the Switch went on the market and only Zelda (I think) released on both. As far as Sony (and MS) are concerned though, they have supported their older generation for quite some time after the launch of the next gen system. Therefore if Sony were to release a PS5 in 2018, the PS4/Pro could still be on the market in 2020 - that's 7yrs for a console that was 'weak' at launch - not good enough to run BF4 at 1080/60. Before you accuse me of bashing the PS4, I am even more critical of the XB1 which has continued t struggle despite freeing up more resources and dropping kinect. That GPU was definitely not good enough for the HD era and complexity of modern games. If I think its asking a lot for the PS4 to last 7-8yrs delivering a certain standard of games, then its a much bigger ask f the XB1.

That all plays into the point you made about the 4k HDR era being ubiquitous. That too will date the base consoles and another reason why I think the PS5 could arrive sooner. Like you say, that will (or at least should) put the X in the same position as the XB1s is in relation to the PS4.

I think MS though are on a different pathway to Sony. I don't necessarily think MS will bring out a 'next gen' console and the 'X' is to a degree that console. Its technically offering what you would expect Sony to bring with its PS5 - 4k gaming with 4k assets, Dolby Atmos audio, 4k HDR Bluray player, Game VRR. Chances are the PS5 will be offering a bit more refinement - more games in native 4k compared to CB4k, higher resolution Quality modes etc. I also expect a better CPU to offer more 60fps (or more with HFR via HDMI 2.1) but essentially the same 'target' that the X offers. I think MS will phase out the XB1s and introduce another 'iterative hardware upgrade' in 3-4yrs time. I can see MS having a low and high spec console on the market all the time. At the moment, the low spec is the XB1s and high Spec, the XB1X. In 3-4yrs time, MS release the 'next iterative box', phase out the XB1s so the XB1X becomes the low spec. another 3-4yrs later, the 'X' is phased out, the 'Nextbox' becomes the 'low' spec and MS release the Nextbox 2. This would mean each console last 6-8yrs in terms of game support and all your games keep moving forward with you. Its like upgrading your PC specs (GPU, CPU and/or RAM) every 3-4yrs - you still get to play all your games and a number at enhanced levels.

If MS do follow this pattern, the X will still be 'relevant' as initially the most powerful console on the market, then the most powerful Xbox before becoming the 'entry level 'Xbox console and finally, a footnote in the annals of history. What this could mean in terms of the gaming landscape may well depend on Sony. We know the PS5 is coming and no doubt it will beat the X. If MS do go the iterative route, the 'earliest' they could release the next console is 3yrs time - anything less is unreasonable. Sony could go the PS5, PS5 Pro, PS6, PS6 Pro... with a 3yr cycle. If this happens, and Sony release in 2018, they would have 2 in every 3yrs as the Most powerful console 2017 X, 2018 PS5, 2020 Next Box, 2021 PS5 pro... If they go for a 2019 release, then MS have the 2yr power edge.

I really do think MS are in a difficult position with the X. The way they have positioned and built it does make it very difficult to see where they go next and when. Sony's is much clearer and more obvious. The Pro isn't built really for full 4k experience and therefore have the option to release a PS5 which represents a generational upgrade in all areas - a GPU to handle the resolution and high quality visual settings, RAM to handle hi res textures etc, CPU to handle the complexities of modern games at (preferably) 60fps (or more with VRR and HFR), Atmos audio quality, Game VRR, 4k HDR Bluray etc - in every area a noticeable upgrade. The only realistic option for MS is the CPU area - everything else, the X offers. The specs of the X are impressive for a console but that makes it difficult to build a 'next gen' console that's say 4x better as a generational jump. I think a 2x increase is hardly a 'generational' leap but that is not going to see much difference in the games - they will still be 4k HDR quality. The only difference maybe frame-rates. Thats another reason I think MS will go the more iterative route.

By the time 4K HDR is ubiquitous, the X may still be relevant as the 'entry' level Xbox (the 'low-end' like the XB1 is currently) to rival the PS5 but MS will probably also have the 'Premium' 'next iterative box' (the 'high-end' like the X is currently) on the market too.

I know that's yet another big block of text - sorry but I felt I needed to go more indepth and try to put context, history and reasoning as to why I think we are seeing a different pathway from the big two console manufacturers and what that could lead to.