Topic: Red Dead Redemption 2 OT

@ApostateMage I still rated it 8/10, so I surely appreciated a lot of things about RDR 2 but if I ask myself:
"Would you prefer to have another studio working with the RDR 2 engine or to have Rockstar working with another studio's engine?" then the answer is ready.
Gameplay wise, RDR 2 is a 6/10 to me and there are zero chances I'll go through the game again; great graphics, great music, great voice acting but god I wished I were Dutch, the one who decides what to do and how instead of a compliant handyman.

@andreoni79 This was my niggle with an otherwise great game. The time investment didn't seem worth it in the end - aside from the story which I enjoyed. As a linear open world game (strange description) it works with directed missions and a strict ruleset. As a sandbox and more personalised gameplay experience, it falls flat for me. That point in Chapter 6 was a bit of a gut punch...

After three months of almost daily play I have finished Arthur's story. I can't believe how great the writing was during and near the end of that chapter. Everything clicked into place. Of course, even without having read a simple story, of course it wasn't to difficult to predict how the chapter would end, but when the story is told in such a magnificient way, it doesn't really matter whether you can see twists coming from afar or not.

I wasn't even mad that I lost all my stuff as a result, because... well, that's just how it goes. All in all a great story about deat, loyalty and what it means to be good[. Congrats on that, Rockstar. I see why so many people have been blown away by that.

The game reminds me of The Last Guardian a lot, which is one of my favorites of this generation. Not because of its story, of course! That game, like Red Dead Redemption 2 suffers from some dated design choices. I think with The Last Guardian the explanation is simply the fact that this was supposed to be a last-generation game after all. As a result I had quite some frustrating moments with the game, even though I will defend the game until the day I die. I just felt so connected to the story and its world, that I was willing to look past those things.

What also helped was that I could just pretend to be playing a PS3 game.

Now, a same of the above could be said for Rockstar's RDR2. Pretty much everything about it is great, except the way in which it is played. I won't lie, there were a lot of moments I wasn't having fun. There were a lot of moments when I was bored. And then there were a lot of moments in which I was baffled with how they had chosen to design things.

I have put the game aside for a numbers of time, most common reason: "I don't think I'm having fun." With RDR2 you can't pretend you're playing a PS3 game, because you clearly aren't. Some of the things in this game are really progressive - and it looks like a PS4 Pro game alright. Core controls and gameplay at times feel like they're stuck in 2010.

But the amazing story, characters and beautiful world kept me engaged and wanting to play on. It's easily the best Rockstar ever did on those. Throughout the game you'll experience all kinds of feelings. The last time I was this moved by a game was, indeed The Last Guardian.

Expect some more ranting/discussing when I've finished the full game. Sorry!

@Kidfried The epilogue is kind of weird and I’d have been happy enough if it wasn’t there at all.

New Mexico is cool to revisit but is quite an empty space for how massive an area it is. The change of tone is quite neat though.

I won’t say too much more if you’ve yet to play it. However, I’m glad that I didn’t sell all the gold bars I had as Arthur as it was a pain to have no cash to start with as John.

@Thrillho From what I have gathered in my time playing through it so far the epilogue feels like its main purpose is to connect the two games more than anything else. Already I encountered a few things that made me go "Oh, so that's how that happened"

Also, on chapter 6 I've been sad about its ending all day today. Arthur must be one of my favorite protagonists ever in a video game.

@Kidfried Yeah, I get that they wanted to link the games and the fact they remade New Mexico in such detail but with so little happening there, it makes me wonder whether a remake is on the cards but that would be a first for R*

And chapter 6... the emotizonal impact of the death of your horse was slightly lost on me as I’d decided to finally splash my cash on a better horse in the final chapter so Shiva (my horse from the start) got to ride another day. Maybe.

Herein lies the problem and the genius of RDR2 — I spent the last 4 hours playing and didn’t advance my game progress toward the end even one fraction of a percentage.
I have been trying to just push through so I can experience this grand conclusion that I keep hearing about, and I have been telling myself to just focus on story missions and glaze over the extra stuff for now. Yet, I just always seem to be tempted by the many distractions in this huge game world. The stranger interactions are often better and more fun than the story missions. I started my session at 49.6% story completion and after 4 hours of gameplay, I’m still at 49.6%. 😂 I made no progress.
But I [I’ll use spoiler tags for these experiences just in case people may not want to know what stranger events are ahead] helped a biographical writer collect stories for his gunslinger book, I helped a guy develop the electric chair, I went on a date and watched a show with my ex, and then got into a brawl at an art gallery to defend an artist’s questionable paintings
And then I spent 30 minutes picking out a new vest, hat, and engravings for my rifle.
But my favorite was when I met some kind of strange traveling performers which included chasing a little person magician as he disappeared in puffs of smoke through the wilderness. And I can’t wait to see their show in Saint Denis.
All this fun and not a single bit of it added to my game progress.
So I am both delighted and frustrated by the game. All this time spent and I haven’t even done any hunting, fishing, or robbing to speak of. And just forget any hope of trying to find all the cigarette cards, dinosaur bones, camp requests, and filling out the plant and animal compendium! And every time someone cries out randomly for help in the street I quickly run the other way. — I don’t have time for your problems, dude! I can’t get involved!

I have read that the story really picks up soon, and I really want to experience it. Not to mention I have so many games in the backlog. But if there is something RDR2 does well it is — distract you with hundreds of hours of fun side content.

@Th3solution The total percent complete count is utter garbage though. You get a “tick” for completing a small number of strangers missions and then it’s not counted anymore. You also get points for completing the collection quests which take forever. Obviously story missions add to it too.

I got up to 20% or something completion whilst mucking around with all the other stuff in the game and doing little main mission.

And anyway, it’s exploring the world that made the game so special to me so play it how you want!

@Thrillho Okay, that’s good to know. I thought I was seeing that number go up much more quickly earlier in the game, but now that makes sense if stranger missions just stop being counted.

One of my problems is that I like to play games to completion and try to see all content. (At least games that I really like). In open world games I like to mop up all the side activities in an area before moving on to the next story mission, because in some games if you progress the story then you get locked out of optional missions or optional hidden loot. I believe RDR2 is like that. Robert mentioned after he reviewed it that he missed some of the stranger missions and interactions because you can’t go back to them, and he recommended trying to hit them all. I tend to play games this way anyways, but the problem is that the side content is almost never ending here. I’m trying to at least finish the big question marks in the area, but each one is a rabbit hole that you fall down which leads to more missions and interactions. So I’ve tried to not be so obsessive-compulsive about doing everything available, but I just can’t help myself sometimes. But the important thing is that I am enjoying it.

Oodles of side content is actually an epidemic in gaming now in general. I’ve stalled out in a few games lately because they have so much content, much of which is often fluff. The Stranger missions do not seem like fluff in RDR2, and in fact are often more entertaining than the main story. The hunting and collecting and helping people on the street is more filler-type though so I will probably just skip that kind of stuff because I really want to finish this game. It’s one of my early 2019 goals. 😋

@Th3solution Don't worry too much about getting distracted. I was like that early in the game, but now I'm on chapter six, and because I did so much of the side stuff earlier on, I've now only got story stuff to worry about. Occasionally a new stranger mission will pop up, but it's mostly mainline missions now. So it kind of balances out.

I played for a few hours today and the only side activity I did was to go off and catch a few more of the legendary fish. But that's only because I felt like it. I think I'm going to clean up the collectible stuff post-story, if the urge is still there.

This mission totally cracked me up because Arthur's reaction was absolutely brilliant!

@Th3solution Actually with Red Dead Redemption 2 I only started enjoying the game as soon as I accepted I was going to miss some stuff.

Only if you're ok with having no fun, it's possible to get all missables and 100% it.

Ignore the trophies, ignore the percentages and all that stuff, because it's pretty meaningless anyway.

@Th3solution I’m also a completionist but had to accept leaving a lot of the collectibles at least. I did the rock carvings and dream catchers, and there is so little reward for bothering. I also did the legendary fish like @Gremio108 as I quite enjoyed them. I also got the cigarette cards by continuously buying pack in St Denis towards the end of the game. That still left me so far from getting 100% though.

And yeah @Kidfried, the trophies are ridiculous. I thought having to track AND skin all animals was a bit OTT.

I think I’m mid way through Ch 5 and I think I can see where this story is heading. Arthur was just diagnosed with TB and is looking pretty rough, coughing up blood and all. If this is like the movie Tombstone, I expect Arthur will succumb to his illness. But actually, something tells me that he will do so kind of self sacrifice given he knows his days are numbered anyways.
The music in this section is fantastic. I think I’m going to add some of these songs to some of my playlists.

@Th3solution That bit hit me so hard. (By the way, was it something you saw coming?)

Also, from that point I finally understood the story the game wanted to tell, and really got into it. Hope it pulls you in too!

@Kidfried No, I didn’t really see it coming, but I guess it’s not a complete shock either. I notice in retrospect that Arthur would cough every now and then, but I just thought it was because he was a heavy smoker and was exposed to the elements a lot during the Guarma trial I hope to play a little more this week. I am really invested in the story now.

I’ve completed Ch. 6. I am full of impressions that I want to share, but I’m holding off and will come back with a full report. It’s a game that’s hard to talk about without spoilers, but there are plenty of generalities I’ll be inclined to touch on.
I’ve been playing nearly all day. I’m determined to put this thing to bed!

Credits are rolling. I can’t believe it.
I’ve got to gather my thoughts.

[Apologies ahead of time for the wall of text. I just have to get some of this off my chest.]

What can I say about RDR2 that hasn’t already been said? Finishing the game comes as both a great relief as well as a profound sadness to see the end of a seminal classic. It’s a game that has me split in my opinions of it, unlike any other game I’ve ever played, I think.

Much has been said of its transcendent open world design and amazing level of detail. It’s a sandbox world the likes of which I don’t think we’ve ever seen. I really believe it sets a new standard in world design that will be a benchmark for future games to aspire to. The living, breathing Wild West does not disappoint with its constant hustle and bustle of random activity, day/night dynamic weather, unpredictable encounters, and voluminous side content. I feel that although I played the game for maybe up to 80 hours, I barely scratched the surface of delving into all the content here.

....And herein lies the main issue of the game. With such a profound story to tell, the enormity with which Rockstar has shackled the game’s ideas under a huge open world actually detracts from what I think is its strongest point — that being its impactful narrative. It’s a strange marriage of linear gameplay and open world mechanics. It’s been said on here before, but the story missions are remarkably linear, with step-by-step instructive text and map markers showing you and telling you exactly what to do. This is in stark contrast to the other element of not being limited by anything but your imagination during your free roam wandering moments through the huge sandbox world. I suppose Rockstar intended to try to please both sides of the fence with linear and open gameplay, but in the end it makes it lose its focus for me a little bit.

We talk about games having respect for the player’s time, and well, in my opinion RDR2 overstays it’s welcome in large degree. Toward the end I was just trying to push through to the end, ignoring most side content, even when the game keeps flinging it in your face, and yet the story just kept going and going. In my opinion, there is just way too much filler here. And I’m not even referring to the collectibles, stranger missions, hunting and fishing, exploring, gang warfare, random NPC encounters, and simulation aspects — The story missions themselves are chock full of trite and unnecessary fluff.

Now I don’t discount that many of the seemingly unnecessary story elements are there to build relationships and promote the player to be invested in the different characters and form emotional ties so that the pay-off will be that much better as you see how things progress toward the end. But it’s just too much, imo. It had been said that the story really picks up at the second half, and although the wonderful narrative does start to crystallize in Ch. 5 and beyond, to me it didn’t seem to keep pace with my interest level and the conclusion was far too delayed and put off by minutiae.

Nevertheless, it’s difficult to be too judgmental of the narrative because I absolutely loved the core story. Arthur Morgan is truly one of the great video game characters of this or any generation. His story resonated with me like few have before. I was extremely impressed with the lessons that the game teaches and the impact on my psyche it produced. I’m a sucker for a fallen hero redemption story arc, and this game has two — The setting up of John Marston’s tale being the other main narrative piece.

(Warning about spoilers of the epilogue and game’s ending in the following few paragraphs, but I’ve blacked out the major spoilers)
But in a game where just the epilogue is bigger than a lot of other entire video games, well it’s just too much. Even the credits seem to carry on and on for seemingly an eternity, trickling little images that give a suggestion of what ultimately becomes of some of games lesser characters. It’s a nice touch but after all this time, just give me the information in a concise package rather than drawn out through 30-45 minutes of credits.
I kept thinking the epilogue was more akin to what would be DLC in most other games and so I respect Rockstar for not withholding content. Kudos to them for that.

But honestly, the epilogue is a microcosm of the whole game - a story which could have been told in a fraction of the time.

It’s really too bad because if you sift through all the extraneous content and interpret the tale of a broken man, remorseful for his actions, faced with his own mortality, and his attempts to reconcile himself with the cruel world he unwillingly helped to create ....well it’s just Oscar-worthy material the likes of which Hollywood should be jealous of. For we all can relate to making mistakes in life and hoping to change things we’ve done. To escape and hope for a better world is a universal theme in life. Arthur and John’s story really inspire in their tragic way. But at the end of the day, Red Dead Redemption 2 doesn’t live up to the first game which I felt told the story tighter. For all intents and purposes RDR2 should be the vastly superior game, but for me it does not supplant RDR as the pinnacle of redemptive storytelling in video games.

Although it sounds like I didn’t enjoy the game, quite the contrary — it’s a must play and one of the greatest of this generation. I’m upset at the game for its foibles, but what it accomplished is truly breathtaking at the same time.

I’ll stop now and I apologize as I realize the irony that this post is the epitome of hypocrisy in how it goes on and on to comment about a games lack of focus and brevity. 😂

@Th3solution I'm halfway through part II of the epilogue. I'll read your post properly in a couple of days (hopefully!) and then we'll talk!