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Topic: PS4 recommendation thread

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Tjuz

@Kidfried I'll be sure to report back on how it runs once I try it out! Seems like there's varied experiences, considering Dishonored worked fine but RDR ran terribly.

@RogerRoger Good to hear Metal Gear Rising is a great game! I'm not all that familiar with the fighting games genre, but I do prefer melee combat over shooters so I'm very open to trying it out. Seems like a good starting point, since it's cheap and familiar! One thing, will it spoil anything from the MGS games set before it (which I suppose is all of them)? I have played MGS1 and MGS2, so I'm most concerned about it spoiling something from MGS4 since it stars Raiden. Well, outside of the fact that he survives MGS4 and turns into some cyborg, but that's not all that major.

I don't mind graphics all that much as long as the gameplay, or at least story, is engaging. I'm guessing the framerate isn't unplayable either, but I'm also the person who played Dishonored at 15 - 20 FPS and enjoyed it immensely. The controller/mouse is definitely what concerned me most regarding Alpha Protocol, so trying it out again on PS3 seems like a good way to go if it's not completely unplayable on there!

Also, you mentioned earlier that Batman: Arkham Origins would be a 10/10 game for you if not for some of it's faults. Out of curiosity, what are the games you'd consider 10/10?

Thanks!

Edited on by Tjuz

Tjuz

RogerRoger

@Tjuz Oh, er... yeah, don't play Metal Gear Rising until you've finished MGS4. Buy a copy safe in the knowledge that it's awesome, but don't start it yet. There are a couple of direct spoilers and some general themes and nods in the plot that you won't get without having played MGS4 first.

Given what you just said, I'd definitely recommend Alpha Protocol, then. In its best moments, it can be something really special, particularly with a few playthroughs where you make deliberately-different choices. I've played it three times and I still feel like I haven't seen every possible outcome to every situation. I'm sure the performance won't be an issue.

Blimey, um... I don't know if there's ever been a truly perfect game. There have been things like the fifth and final episode of Telltale's Batman: The Enemy Within that I'd give a 10 to, but without the context of the previous four episodes it's a pretty meaningless number; I just felt the payoff was a crescendo worthy of a 10, but overall the entire season was probably an 8 or 9. I'd also say that compilations like Uncharted: The Nathan Drake Collection, the Metal Gear Solid HD Trilogy and the Tomb Raider HD Trilogy are worthy of a 10, because I'm judging them as a remaster of excellent quality and value, but none of the three individual games within any of those are a 10 on their own.

I think the only individual game I'd ever give a perfect 10 to is probably Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots because on its own, it comes the closest to perfection, but a lot of my feelings carry the weight of the previous MGS games, so it's kinda similar to the Telltale example. I'm not sure I'd feel the same if I'd played it without having played the others.

Sorry for the rambling non-answer. I could list you dozens of 9s if you'd like.

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life."
Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard, Stardate: 42923.4

Tjuz

@RogerRoger I guess I'll finish MGS4 before playing Metal Gear Rising then! Thanks for the warning. Alpha Protocol definitely has interested me and the only thing that really turned me off it was the controls like I said, so I hope the PS3 can at least provide a better experience with that. Considering you played it three times, I'm sure I'll be fine with a controller!

Wasn't the final episode of Enemy Within completely dependent on the choices you made in previous chapters? Maybe it was just Telltale hyping it up, but I think I remember hearing that the final chapter was vastly different depending on previous choices. If that's the case, I'm impressed they managed to keep a stable quality throughout both resolutions, unless you mean one of the two specifically. Not surprised you think highly of a Batman game though, considering the talks we've had in other threads and comments I've seen you make! Not to discredit your opinion, though. I really enjoyed the first season of Telltale's Batman when it was free with PS Plus earlier this year and I've been meaning to pick up Enemy Within on sale at some point. Good to hear it's great!

I do think that, like with MGS4 or the final episode of Enemy Within, in the case of sequels previous games should definitely be taken into account. It's a bit unfair to really take a sequel and put it in it's own box when the story and gameplay mechanics are most likely building off of previous entries. I'm sure MGS4 would make no sense story-wise if you haven't played the previous games, but is that really a fair point against the game if it's counting on you to have played the previous games? If that was the case, only debuts for franchises could really be classified as 10/10 games. I think the context definitely matters and there shouldn't be an asterisk because there's more to it than just one game, even if it can't quite stand on it's own.

I would ask you for your list of 9s, but I'm not sure I want to give you the task of listing them all since it sounds like you've got plenty! Feel free to throw some my way you deem worthy of mentioning though.

Tjuz

RogerRoger

@Tjuz I've only played The Enemy Within the once; I just felt that the conclusion it provided my choices was absolutely incredible, so I guess it's a kinda personal 10 from me there. I do plan on playing it again but I'm not sure if I'll do everything differently, because I so adored the story they presented me with after I made certain calls. But I did take a peek at some scenes on YouTube afterwards and yeah, there are some pretty huge changes you can engineer for the finale.

But yeah, if you're not a bat-fan, I can totally understand with how you might disagree with my assessment; from a purely analytical standpoint, it was a technically-competent narrative game with excellent voice acting and some uneven pacing, so its components are probably worth a seven or eight.

Fair point about franchise debuts and sequels; I guess I was just thinking about MGS4 and why I reckon it deserves a 10, and everything came back to the moments where it interacts with the Metal Gear legacy, and the emotional impact it had on me because I'd played the previous games back-to-back before I got there. Put it alongside Mass Effect 3 and RiME and you've got a trilogy of games that I'm not ashamed to admit made me cry... like, a lot. Plenty of things make me blink through misty eyes, but full-on weeping, only those three. Which immediately makes me wanna give them high scores, but then I step back and think about the technical elements and gameplay and force myself to be fair and, in the case of MGS4 and Mass Effect 3, I wouldn't have cried if I hadn't played the previous games.

So, what about you, then? Are there any games you'd consider a perfect 10 and, if so, why?

As for my 9s you're right, there are plenty! You just got two more out of me, Mass Effect 3 and RiME. Others that leap to the top of the pile are Horizon: Zero Dawn, Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception, Tearaway, the aforementioned Batman: Arkham Origins, Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations, LEGO Star Wars III: The Clone Wars, Split/Second: Velocity, James Bond 007: Everything or Nothing and several more Metal Gear games. I'm probably forgetting dozens, though.

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life."
Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard, Stardate: 42923.4

Tjuz

@RogerRoger Fair enough on the crying making your opinion biased. I feel like if a game has earned that cry, whether over the span of one game or an ongoing story, it should be counted equally. You can't expect to start a story in the last third and be emotionally invested in it's characters! I definitely understand your point though, and don't worry — Mass Effect 3 was a real tearjerker for me too. I am the very model of a scientist salarian....

I think rating games a 10 is really hard depending on how you define it. Is a 10 an indication of a perfect game or can it have it's faults? As you know, I absolutely love Mass Effect and as a trilogy I would easily give it a 10, but I don't think I can do that with any individual game in the trilogy. They all have some major faults (Mass Effect 1's gameplay, Mass Effect 2's main storyline, Mass Effect 3's ending and leaving out of some major plot points in favor of making it DLC). I would say Mass Effect 3 comes the closest though. It had a great mix of fantastic gameplay, great chat acts and character moments as well as some really memorable missions with Tuchanka and Rannoch. Also probably the highlight of the franchise's soundtracks, since I know you love those! I think it was the best overall package, but as with the sequels/franchise debuts discussion, I doubt it works as well without having played the previous game. Regardless of that, since I don't find that relevant, it's probably still a 9.

I think the only other games that I would come even close to giving a 10 are the first Dishonored and the first season of The Walking Dead. I don't really have any complaints with either of these games, and they're both fantastic experiences. I don't think they're perfect, but they sure are the closest to perfect I've come in my gaming life. Dishonored has a fairly unimpressive story, but makes up for it with incredible gameplay and varied level design. The Walking Dead has it's moments where the forward momentum dies down a little too much, but it makes up for it with interesting and lovable characters. I recognise that both of them have areas in which they could've improved, but I have no real complaints. If we go by the metric of not really having any complaints about a game and enjoying it a lot, then those would have to be my 10s. That said, I don't love either of them as much as I do the Mass Effect games, so to really balance that out I often refer to Mass Effect more as a trilogy than individual games. And like I said before, Mass Effect as a trilogy is absolutely a 10/10 for me, since every game makes up for the faults of the others. (Mass Effect 2/3 gameplay greatly improved, main story of 1/3 much more interesting, ending of 1/2 much more satisfying)

A bit of a convoluted answer to a fairly simple question, buy I hope you got my point. Those are the games/trilogy I would truly give a 10/10, even if not quite by every possible metric.

I actually own Horizon: Zero Dawn (came with my new PS4 when my old one broke within the warranty period), but I haven't played it past the 5 hour prologue. Once the world opened up, I just quit the game and never came back. Open worlds just overwhelm me at this point, and the only only I've been able to finish is The Witcher 3, and that took a lot of forcing myself to continue! Maybe I'll get back to Horizon: Zero Dawn some day, as it sounds like I should. I also own Uncharted 3 within the Nathan Drake Collection and am currently on Uncharted 2, so I should be making my way there some time! I've downloaded Tearaway Unfolded from PS Now. I don't think the PS4 Unfolded version is very different from the Vita version, right? If not, I clearly have to get started soon. I've never really played Sonic as much as I hate to admit that to a Sonic fan! Always been more about the Mario (and yet I don't own a Switch)! Definitely looking forward to continuing the Metal Gear franchise too. I've got a lot of gaming to do! This is what I get for having somewhat zoned out of it for the past couple of years.

Tjuz

RogerRoger

@Tjuz Oh, I didn't cry at that part of Mass Effect 3... got misty-eyed, but didn't cry. Since I didn't play it until years after release, with the Extended Cut and Citadel content installed (and leaving the Citadel DLC as the last thing I did before the end, on the advice of a friend), my crying was pretty much from Liara teaching me her song on the piano all the way through to the end credits. I adored it, and will actually defend the ending in its final state (but having looked up what you originally got at launch, yeah, I can understand the rage).

I think that difference says something about the uniqueness of human emotions, particularly in response to films, television, books, music and / or games, and why it's therefore so difficult to award something a perfect 10 when you know almost everybody else could disagree with your criteria. It's why I dislike review scores sometimes, and I think that's the core of what we've been discussing; would you agree?

The trilogy of trilogies (heh) I mentioned being worthy of a 10 before could be swapped out for much of your paragraph about the Mass Effect trilogy and I'd be in total agreement. There are always elements in every game that people just aren't gonna agree with or like, even if the majority do. For example, the Tomb Raider HD Trilogy on PS3 contains Legend, Anniversary and Underworld and of the three, I'd rate Anniversary the lowest; it's a lonely, slow-paced trudge through some muted environments, and I'd gotten used to Lara having chatter in her earpiece in Legend and the pace being a little more "action movie" across more diverse, yet smaller, environments. Most folks I've seen, however, would probably rate Anniversary the highest, yet I still think the entire trilogy is a 10, because that slow middle chapter is offset by the beginning and end.

With that reasoning then yeah, I'd agree that the Mass Effect trilogy is worth a 10 (and would definitely be if there were a competent remaster, done by Bluepoint or somebody of equivalent skill, putting them all on the same disc for current systems). I'm afraid I've never played Dishonoured before (as you know) and won't ever play The Walking Dead (ick, zombies) but I was interested to hear your thoughts on them all the same, and will look into Dishonoured as a possible at some point. It's also cool that you gave different reasons for loving them (gameplay vs. character) and pretty neat that we've both singled out Telltale narrative-driven games for high praise.

Sorry for the in-depth response, by the way. I'm really chatty sometimes!

I used to be the same with massive open world games. If you'll welcome a tip, I tend to focus on the story missions first, because they'll usually take you to most of the corners of the map, and then you'll be more familiar and less overwhelmed if (because they're called "optional" for a reason) and when you come to try the optional side quests. That approach definitely helped me with Horizon; if you ever do go back to it, I'd recommend doing the same.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on Uncharted 3. I'm afraid I can't confirm the differences between consoles regarding Tearaway, as I've only ever played the PS Vita version (once; really want to replay it sometime soon) and it integrated the handheld's various input functions really well. Not sure how some of them would translate, but I'm sure it'll be lovely because it's MediaMolecule and they're great. And hey, not everything's for everybody; even my partner is a Nintendo fanboy who makes snarky comments about Sonic!

I zoned out during the tail end of the PS2 era and for over half of the PS3's lifespan, so I know how you feel right now. I suddenly had so much to catch up on when I finally got a PS3, and it was a little overwhelming, to the point where I just focused on one franchise at a time (Bond, then Sonic, then Star Wars, then Metal Gear, then Batman, then Uncharted, then Mass Effect) with breaks in between to look around for random new one-off experiences. Meant I was late in getting a PS4 as well, but maybe that isn't the worst thing. I always like to give new technology a version or two to get settled in.

My point is, none of this is going anywhere. Play what you want to, when you want to!

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life."
Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard, Stardate: 42923.4

JohnnyShoulder

Resident Evil and Resi Evil 0 Remasters are currently on offer on the PS store. I played Resi Evil when it first came out (not even going there now long ago that was lol) on ps1 but not played zero.

I've seen the trailers and I'm ok with the graphics. Has anyone played em and explain how they play compared to games these days? I believe tank controls are optional which is a good thing imo.

Also on the Resi Evil vibe, the season pass for 7 is also own offer. Is this worth it? I've played the base game up until the chainsaw fight.

Many thanks in advance!

Edited on by JohnnyShoulder

JohnnyShoulder

PSN: JohnnyShoulder

beemo

@JohnnyShoulder RE Zero is the entire reason I bought a Gamecube. It's right up there with the original trilogy and you're right about the controls, the original scheme is in there but the alternate controls are basically the same as what RE4 introduced.
I actually prefer the original controls because of nostalgia mainly but I feel they are a little more accurate but the alternate controls make evasion easier.
Either way it's definitely worth your money.

beemo

PSN: greenbeemo

Tjuz

@RogerRoger I actually also didn't play it until years after release. My first playthrough of the trilogy would've been... 2015? I did a second in 2016 and then solely replayed Mass Effect 1 earlier this year. I also didn't have any DLC outside of the extended cut until the second playthrough, and only added Pinnacle Station for my third playthrough of 1. I bought the Kasumi and Overlord DLC for my third playthrough of ME2, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I played all the other DLC on my second playthrough. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that I only have played Citadel once and I don't actually recount Liara teaching a soung. I might recognise it if I rewatch the scene, but I'm ashamed to say I have no idea what this song is! I don't think the ending is too bad like many people did and still do, but I did feel it was quite disappointing and I had no real want to replay the ending for a second time, so I just capped my second playthrough off with the Citadel DLC and left it there. The thing that got to me the most of the Citadel DLC emotionally was probably Thane's funeral. That was really well done.

I definitely agree that review scores are almost too subjective to really be a metric worthy of recognising, but I still have to admit I use them. They're generally a fine indicator of what is at the very least a fine game vs. a bad game. It's really the amount to which you like something that gets blurry with review scores, as well as keeping an eye on what your preferred genres are and taking that into account. A scoring policy like the ones PushSquare uses certainly helps keep the review score as objective as humanly possible, but it's never perfect. Every person is going to give different games a 10/10, and every person will only review games of which they're fairly sure they'll enjoy them (or why play them?). This is both a positive and a negative for review scores. Someone who appreciates a certain genre is more likely to appreciate a certain game's genre-specific strengths than someone who isn't into the mechanics of that genre — or the genre period. On the other side, if a person who is fairly certain they'll enjoy a game ends up not enjoying said game as much as they imagined they're far more likely to have internal backlash to it and perhaps score it lower than it deserves ''objectively''. It's a very tricky thing to achieve a proper balance, and it only gets trickier when it comes to 10/10 since, as we've established, a 10/10 is quite different by everyone's metric whereas the meaning behind a 1-9 are fairly universal even if they are applied to different games from different people. That's a lot of words to describe that a 10/10 score striving to be objective can never quite exist, even if just looking at the factual aspects of a game, whereas other scores are usually more acceptable by anyone. It's what makes game reviews quite tricky to navigate, and you really need to find a certain reviewer you happen to agree with often to decide to heavily rely on them. So to answer your question in short, it sounds like I agree!

I'm afraid I can't really discuss further on the subject of the Tomb Raider HD Trilogy specifically. I've only played the 2013 Tomb Raider game for about four hours, and never got past that. Not quite sure why I quit as it was fairly enjoyable! I'll have to return to those games eventually, or maybe even the older ones like in the HD Trilogy if you believe they hold up? I absolutely agree with the overall thought that a trilogy can offset an individual game's faults though.

Don't remind me of my hopes for a Mass Effect current-gen remaster! I'd be delighted if Bluepoint actually made that. I did read they are hiring for a classic to remake today, so it's unlikely they will do it any time soon. Not sure why EA hasn't gone ahead with this yet, as I don't see why it wouldn't be as least competently successful. Especially if they manage to improve the gameplay of ME1, although I am not personally bothered by it all that much, yet recognise it could be a lot better. I do urge you to play at least the first season of The Walking Dead at some point in the future. I'm not sure whether your ''ick, zombies'' came from a place of zombie fatigue or general dislike for the zombie trope, but I think you'll find that The Walking Dead is not just a ''zombie game'' but also very much a genuine character study. The zombies are there more to raise the stakes than to play an active part in the story or gameplay. I actually was not at all looking forward to sinking my teeth into that game either before I booted it up and started playing it because of the ''zombie focus'', and yet here I am recommending it to any person who hasn't yet played it! Truly a masterclass in storytelling. Glad you will be looking into Dishonored, preferably as soon as possible! TWD is just another reason why I will definitely be giving The Enemy Within a shot as well at some point, besides me enjoying the first season. Just waiting for it to go on sale for like less than €10.

That's definitely a good point with the main story taking you pretty much all the way across the map. I'm just very OCD when it comes to video games (and even certain things in real life) and feel the need to clear out everything if I'm in the vincinity as much as possible, which really distracts me from my main goal in open world games which is to mostly just do the main mission and do side missions as I encounter them. At some point I just eventually get fatigued and don't play for like 6 months, which happened with The Witcher 3 probably 4/5 times (but hey, I got through it eventually)! I will keep the tip in mind though, as I never really viewed it from that perspective before. That specific perspective might just help get over the mental blockade, dread and possibly some of the OCD!

I have played LittleBigPlanet 3 and really enjoyed that, so I am somewhat familiar with MediaMolecule's work. A bit hesitant regarding Dreams however, considering I'm not sure I have the imagination or patience to come up with anything exciting in that game! I sure didn't in LBG3 at the very least, which also seemed incredibly complicated for the few minutes I gave it, haha. Tearaway is definitely one of my PS Now priorities, and I might start that after I finish Sherlock Holmes: Crimes and Punishments. It'll be either that or Gravity Rush Remastered depending on what I'll be in the mood for that day! I also can't really exclaim that Sonic isn't for me, as I've never actually given it a try. Always just stuck with what I knew! You're allowed to bestow your Sonic fan wrath upon me for that one! Also, speaking of PS Now. I gave Batman: Arkham Origins a shot earlier today, but playing it did feel somewhat awkward. I'm sure it was the streaming and input lag and not the game. It certainly was playable, but I felt like I wasn't getting the standard experience. Even when I would test my motions for input lag, it didn't seem all that terrible, and yet felt very off while playing it. I'll have to pick it up on PC or PS3, depending on wherever it's cheaper!

Not sure I could do what you did with focusing on one franchise at a time. I'd almost certainly burn myself out, which is why I'm currently focusing on trying a variety of different games simultaneously! I've also limited myself to one game per platform, so currently it's Dreamfall: The Longest Journey for PC, MGS3 for PS3 and Sherlock Holmes for PS4. I might start Arkham Origins after Dreamfall, or dig deeper into the backlog with older games such as Vampires: The Masquerade - Bloodlines or Beyond Good & Evil, the latter of which I already own on PC. Not sure if I'll be able to keep myself to this system for long, but right now it's working... mostly! Any one-off experiences you found during your trudge to become up to date on gaming that might be worth playing? I'll accept any suggestions (that you haven't already suggested, of course)! I'm also trying to broaden my gaming library in terms of variety, instead of sticking to what I know, this time around! I probably won't be buying the PS5 any time soon after it has come out either. I like to give consoles some time to become the best versions of themselves, expand their library and most importantly — wait for the prices of both the console and games to drop. I can definitely relate to you on that front. Besides, I've already got tons to play!

Finally, I sure ain't judging you for your chattiness! I definitely enjoy chatting in-depth with people about whatever interests me too (as you probably also can tell), and you're a great discussion partner so far. Hope I didn't end up rambling for too long with this one, haha.

Tjuz

RogerRoger

@Tjuz I just hope others don't mind the walls of text we keep producing!

Ah, that's quite an interesting approach to Mass Effect. Since I had it recommended by a friend, I leaned on her to ensure I had everything I needed before getting underway. I did a full playthrough with a generic John Shepard, then did a "personal" playthrough as a customised Jason Shepard. I've also played ME1 and ME2 as a Kathryn Shepard, because I'd heard good things about FemShep's voice actor and wanted to see some of the other romance options that I was blocked off from as a male commander. One day soon, I'll complete ME3 with Kathryn, then probably wait until there's a remaster or give it a good few years before playing through as Jason again.

The reason for that context is because I wanted to ask who you romanced, specifically in ME3, because that might explain why Liara never taught you anything on the piano during the Citadel DLC; I'm not sure whether the scene is different if you've romanced her, because I never did and so it could just be the "friend" version of whatever folks who romance her get instead. Also, did you play as a male or female Shepard? Because there might also be differences as a result of that choice, too.

Regardless, yeah, Thane's funeral sequence was a real kicker!

The debate about review scores is one that'll get a little larger as time goes by, I think. More and more sites are questioning whether they're a good thing or not (even Push Square had a poll about them recently) and there's a horrible side to them when they're fed into Metacritic and developer bonuses are only paid out if their game scores above a 90 upon release, regardless of how much money it actually makes; whenever I hear that story, I want to scream and start protesting against any more review scores for anything, ever again... yet you're right, they are useful and when there's a well-explained, well-developed scoring criteria in place that people understand, there's no immediate harm done. I also take your great point about reviewer experience and potential bias. I really had to fight with myself recently because I'm a huge Tomb Raider fan and therefore obviously adored my time with Shadow of the Tomb Raider, yet objectively forced myself to step back and, when writing on these forums, admit that it was only a solid 8 ("only" he says, like that's a terrible score). Last thing I'd ever want is to be lumped in with the fanboys, fangirls and fan-undecideds who flood Metacritic, Twitter and other sites with "this is AWESOME!!1! 10/10" or conversely "this is AWFUL!!1! 0/10" because that just doesn't help anybody.

If you're looking for PS3 games on disc, you can't go wrong with the Tomb Raider HD Trilogy if you've never played any of the games before. They're just starting to show their age, and can get a little tricky in places, but by and large they're just cracking action-adventures with a surprisingly-decent story. They also feel very different from the darker reboots, so that may add or subtract a few points depending on what you're looking for. I would imagine you could find it quite cheap someplace.

My "ick, zombies" comment was because I'm a massive coward who hates horror, unfortunately. I can handle atmospheric games which build tension, but in small doses, and am mostly fine with flashes of creepy in things that are otherwise PG-13 (like the Descendants in Uncharted: Drake's Fortune or even the Husks in Mass Effect) but would never play anything billed as a "horror game" or a "zombie game", and would never watch The Walking Dead on TV so kinda just assumed I'd hate the game as well. I'll keep your comments in mind; perhaps it'd be something I could watch someday (with the lights on). Given how well Telltale handled Batman, my problem certainly isn't with them and I'm sure the characters are excellent. I just like to keep a balance and so for every serious, dark thing I watch or play, I have a couple light, fluffy bits of nonsense on standby because my own mood is very susceptible to external influence and I'd hate to take a nose-dive because I'd been exposing myself to bleak and depressing entertainment. It's why I'm currently playing LEGO DC Super-Villains, in between the aforementioned Tomb Raider and next month's Hitman 2.

I've got serious OCD so can sympathise (well, no... I've got CDO, it's like OCD but all the letters are in alphabetical order as they should be). In fact, I forced myself to play big sandbox games in a "story first" way partly because I would otherwise get distracted by trying to 100% each area before moving on and, frankly, I'd get bored of a game before I'd seen the credits roll. That's the last thing I want, especially with something like Horizon which has a beautiful story but so many distractions along the way. At least if I see the story through to completion first and then think "but I wanna keep playing this awesome game" I can, because there's still stuff to do, stuff that won't bother me if I don't finish (as long as my trophies and completion rating are on an even percentage when I choose to walk away). I hope it helps as a tip but, likewise, we're all different and play games differently; just do whatever makes you feel comfortable. The game isn't going anywhere!

Dreams frightens me, because I could lose months of my life to it, if it really is that unlimited... to the point where I'll probably avoid it, to save myself from the inevitable rabbit-hole of perfectionism. And somebody will likely use it to make a far better 3D Sonic game than SEGA ever managed, and that'll depress my inner fanboy, too (no wrath, promise)! Sorry to hear that Arkham Origins didn't hold up on PS Now, though; it's probably a combination of the streaming and the PS3 version's general instability. If you've got a capable and powerful PC, I'd suggest getting it there, as it'll likely be more fluid than the PS3 version, which can be quite janky at times (still perfectly playable, just rough around the edges). I've never played the PC version but have watched a few videos of it being played on YouTube and it briefly makes me wish I were a PC gamer!

Ah, see, we are all different (even if we still agree on a lot!) because I could never jump around between games like that; I play one thing until I'm done with it, then move on to the next, systematically. I do have a couple of "drop in and out" games for the occasional day (or week) where I can't decide what to play, like Star Trek Online and Star Wars: Battlefront II (the only two online multiplayer experiences I'll ever admit to enjoying, although that's mostly because I don't properly play and just hide in the corner and take pretty pictures) or things with level select, like old Bond or Sonic games. But hey, each to their own. I can certainly understand a more scattershot approach if you're desperate to catch up with missed gaming years and want to find a new favourite or refine your personal tastes. There are many types of games I still haven't tried and despite being confident that I wouldn't enjoy them, I'm always open to being proven wrong. It's just finding the time nowadays; there are too many great games (such a first-world problem)!

Finally, as for one-off random games I found for between the big franchises, Alpha Protocol was one of them and we've already covered that, but there's also the Katamari series that's so delightfully wacky and nonsensical (it's unashamedly Japanese) yet has a simple-yet-compelling, OCD-pleasing gameplay loop. Katamari Forever is on PS3 and is a great option, but the series started on PS2 and there's rumours of an upcoming remaster for PS4, so watch out for that. I also played Split/Second: Velocity which is essentially "Michael Bay directs a racing game" and is a heck of a lot of fast-paced, spectacular fun, and I think that might be on PS Now. Vanquish is a PS3 third-person cover-based shooter unlike no other, developed by Platinum Games, whilst on PS4 there's The Order: 1886 which got a lot of flack at launch, but is a wonderful way to spend a weekend. I think I've seen others around here praise those games as well, so they do come highly recommended.

And now that I've mentioned them, I immediately wanna replay them all.

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life."
Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard, Stardate: 42923.4

mookysam

All this talk of Mass Effect, plus last weeks quiz discussion has made me think I really need to replay the Mass Effect trilogy. Thus far I've held off in case EA decide to do a remaster. I haven't played the first one since 2008 (I replayed it about three times over the summer), but have only played 2 and 3 once apiece. Three was my favourite of the bunch. Replaying will give me the opportunity to do things I missed out on the first time such as be
a renegade. I also wanted to romance Kaiden in 3 but missed the one window to do so.

As for 10/10 games, for me it's highly subjective. Games that make me emotional or affect me on a deeper level, or even make me cry tend to be experiences that I rate highly because of their ability to touch something deeper than "oh this gameplay is fun" or "this and that are cool".

Edited on by mookysam

mookysam

beemo

Scores out of 10 isn't a wide enough metric in my opinion. I prefer out of 20 or at least 10 with halves. Anything less than 10 is simply a copout.

Having said that I don't know that I'd give anything 10. It implies perfection but then again nothing is perfect by the definition of the word so 10 should be given to those that are as close to perfect, right?

Indeed, off the top of my muddled mind a few games I'd put in the debate are GTAIII, Metal Gear Solid, Mass Effect 2 Super Mario World.

If we're talking current generation then that's another conversation. I don't feel as entertained as I was with PS3 despite technical performance being much greater. Don't get me wrong, there's lots of great games but 10's? I love Witcher 3 an inordinate amount so it's close but no, I don't think so.

beemo

PSN: greenbeemo

Tjuz

@RogerRoger I hope they don't mind, but it's a discussion forum after all! Might as well take the opportunity to discuss games! I had to cut this reply into two parts, since I got an error while trying to submit it in it's entirety. Seems like even the servers can't keep up with our sheer amount of discussion!

Yeah, my approach to Mass Effect was definitly not one I had planned beforehand. I had bought the first one on a whim, hoping I would enjoy it even though I wasn't quite sure. It was only €2, so worth the gamble! Suffice it to say I finished the entire trilogy soon after, not even knowing that ME1 or ME2 had DLC. I only found out about the Extended Cut by means of the Origin launcher when I had to move to Origin since ME3 wasn't available on Steam. I didn't really get into the gaming sphere until 2013, so I missed out on all the Mass Effect news and it was quite the foreign property to me.

The first time around I played as a male sentinel Shepard, romancing Ashley through all three games. I didn't get to play the CItadel DLC in this playthrough. I didn't have a fancy name for my character either, just John. I did customise my appearance though! For my second playthrough I went female Shepard partially because, like you said, people say they prefer her voice actress. I went engineer on this run and romanced Liara through all three games. This is the playthrough where I played Citadel, so possibly the scene changed considering I was in a romance with Liara, or I just genuinely have forgotten. It's been a while! I was doing another female Shepard for my third playthrough (which added Overlord and Kasumi, although I haven't gotten there yet), this time around romancing Kaidan. It took a lot out of me not to sacrifice Kaidan on Virmire this playthrough as I had done both of my previous ones, even though I had come into my second with the intention of doing the reverse of all of my previous choices. I just couldn't let Ashley die in favour of bland Kaidan[/spoiler]! Did you play paragon, renegade or paragade in your playthroughs! I went mostly paragon --> mostly renegade --> do whatever the hell I feel like while trying to get some of the more obscure consequence to happen like [spoiler]having to kill Wrex in ME3 after he finds out you didn't cure the Genophage, but alas, also haven't gotten there yet.

Great point regarding the bonuses of game developers' being tied to Metacritic scores. That's an absolutely horrible practice and I hope dies out as soon as possible, but we all know the gaming industry has plenty of those! I don't think there's much we can do on that front. It's really just up to game development companies/publisheres to not be greedy little buggers. Like we've both acknowledged, they can still provide a useful source and it'd be ridiculous if we had to censor them just because of terrible inner gaming development related politics. I'm glad you can step back from a game and appreciate it as objectively I can for what you believe it to be worth, but on the other side of this complex matter you could argue that the whole point of a game is to please it's target audience. If it's managed to do that by a long shot, like in your case, why shouldn't it deserve a high score from someone who feels that way? What makes me the authority on you having to be as objective as possible, even when the game hit all the boxes to satisfy you as the game is intended to do? Why do we have to force ourselves to view such a game as a non-fan, when a big part of game development is having to please your already existing fans? If it manages to do that, hasn't it already succeeded as a game and is therefore deserving of a high score no matter how objectively lacking certain areas of the game were? It's an entirely new dimension of conundrums to get yourself involved in if you start thinking about it even more in-depth, but the case remains that a review score itself is fairly shallow and absolutely needs to be backed up by a scoring policy and well written, though out review to even have a semblance of meaning. I don't want to tire you out too much with review scores dicussion!

I don't think I really have much of a preference to go by regarding the Tomb Raider games so far, so I'm definitely open to giving the HD Trilogy a shot. I did see the trilogy is the 5th to 7th game (if I'm remembering the numbering correctly)? Are the first four not essential to the franchise? Are they still worth playing, even if not polished up to par with the later three games, despite being released years ago or have they started to show their age too much to properly enjoy them in this day and age?

Ah, I see. I'm also not a fan of horror in the slightest. No A Quiet Place, Halloween, It or whatever popular Hollywood horror movie has been released recently for me! I don't think The Walking Dead: Season 1 is very horrory. The zombies certainly are a presence throughout the game, but I don't recall being forced to interact with them all that much. There's a few jumpscares here and there, but in small doses and never meant to scare you for longer than a few seconds. That's also why I managed to get through it without Alt + F4'ing out of the game! The Descendants in the first Uncharted absolutely creeped me the hell out, and I don't think I've ever unintentionally speedrunned a section of a game faster than I did there. I'd say they were worse for me than the zombies in The Walking Dead, but I do recognise that that's a far smaller portion of the game. If the very knowledge of the presence of zombies creeps you out too much, then I would have to agree that maybe the game isn't quite for you. Especially if the Husks were already a challenge for you, since I wasn't all that bothered by them in Mass Effect personally. Just fantastic fodder for my pistol in that case! I can't personally relate to severely having your mood affected by the type of entertainment you're consuming, but if that's the case with you then The Walking Dead is definitely something you'll need a palate cleanser for afterwars. It's definitely very serious and can get incredibly dark.

Also, to go off on a little bit of a tangent regarding Hitman 2 since you mentioned it, do let me know what you think about the game when it comes out! As you know, I quite enjoyed Blood Money, but the episodic release of the 2016 Hitman game definitely put me off of that. I couldn't justify spending €60 now to get more episodes every month, but I also didn't have the patience to wait for all the episodes to come out and so I just ended up watching playthroughs of the levels on YouTube. I'm glad they've returned to the old format with Hitman 2, and from what I've seen of it so far, it's shaping up to be even better than how good 2016 Hitman looked. I might just have to get that close to launch, considering how well they supported the previous game as well post-launch. Not to mention the versus multiplayer mode looks incredibly fun. It'll be a bit of a deadlock between getting Red Dead Redemption 2 and Hitman 2 though, since I doubt I can justify myself dumping €60 on two games within a matter of weeks! Too many great options this fall!

Edited on by Tjuz

Tjuz

Tjuz

@RogerRoger Continuing my previous reply...

I can absolutely relate to your experience regarding OCD behavior on video games. That's exactly what makes me dread open worlds like I've said before. Great point with always being able to do the side content beyond the main story as well. It'll just take a lot of rewiring my brain to make it recognise that! Absolutely we all play differently, but your experience seems like it's always been the one I've ideally wanted to have and yet can never get myself to do, so I will absolutely take these tips into account and try to apply them to whatever open world game I run into next! Possibly Gravity Rush Remastered or Red Dead Redemption 1/2, although I don't know exactly how open world the former is. My troubles with it definitely do not go to the point of equal trophy and completion rates, though! That sounds like a pain to have to deal with. Outside of in-game stuff, I really only notice it with routines and always forcing myself to check something a certain amount of times... to the point where it becomes ridiculous. I've been able to start cutting back on that a little bit more recently though, so maybe I can manage the same within the gaming sphere!

Haha, considering how I've watched you post plenty of photo mode screenshots and some very well edited ShareFACTORY videos as well as multiple drafts of such videos on last week's quiz, I can see how you might be afraid of perfectionism regarding Dreams! It definitely sounds like a game that could suck you into it for the rest of your life, which could be a good and bad thing depending on your situation! I'll be sure to get Arkham Origins on PC after what you said. I don't really have loyalty to either platform regarding PC/Playstation. I usually just go for whichever one is more convenient, or can run the game I want to play. I have a fairly low budget laptop, so any game from 2012 or before is usually fine. After that it starts to get trickier and more limited to well optimised games or indie games. It's why I can probably manage Arkham Origins on PC, but will definitely have to resort to my PS4 for Arkham Knight if I ever get to that point. That said, I do prefer gaming in bed with a controller over sititng behind a laptop having!

Bold statement to admit to liking Star Wars: Battlefront II on the internet! Just kidding. I'm definitely not one for playing online (multiplayer) games solo. Maybe occasionally with friends, but I much prefer the singleplayer experience. That said, it sounds like you're making it your own singleplayer experience by turning it into Photo Mode: The Game. Not like I'm missing out on much on that front either, since I'm not all that into the whole shooter genre and that's a lot of the online-only games! You having to play your games systematically only sounds like further proof of your OCD to me, not meant in a bad way, mind! I think a more scattershot approach also just helps me finish games. I usually get to a point in a game where I've binge played it for days, and have just gotten tired with it. By playing a few games simultaneously, my playtime is more balanced and varied and I therefore face less of a risk of ''acidentally'' burning myself out. I just finished Dreamfall: The Longest Journey before starting to write up this reply, so it seems to be working for me so far! I would recommend it to you personally, but it's not available on any Playstation consoles. Definitely give it a look if you ever find yourself in the PC gaming space, although it's also available on the original Xbox.

I had never heard of the Katamari series before your quiz, so I'll have to look into that. I'm not at all familiar with the Japanese gaming scene though, outside of the more mainstream titles. I do hope to get my hands on Yakuza 0 at some point, or maybe even start Kingdom Hearts in the future if I'm feeling bold since I do enjoy my Disney characters! I'm not sure how I feel about ''Michael Bay directing a racing game'', but it sounds like such a wacky combination that I just have to check it out. I'll definitely research more into that tomorrow as well. I didn't know Platinum Games even did a third-person cover-based shooter, so I'm intrigued. I can see how that specific company taking a stab at that genre could make for some interesting results. I'll definitely pick up The Order 1886 if I come across it for cheap. That game's release situation followed by it's increasing praise over the years afterwards has always fascinated me. Definitely sounds like a game worth experiencing.

I don't replay games much, outside of the aforementioned Mass Effect and Dishonored. Most of the time I don't really see the value in doing so, even if I've really enjoyed a game, besides --- you simply don't have the time! There's too much to keep up with, especially with the indie gaming scene in full swing nowadays! I've got too many games and not enough time to play them, haha.

Tjuz

Thrillho

Despite absolutely loving Mass Effect 2 and 3, I have never played the first game. I've played through ME2 three times (normal run, save everyone paragon, and renegade FemShep), and ME3 twice I think carrying on my "save everyone" game (the first run I didn't have an online connection so missed out on getting those war assets, and the second I used guides to get all the best outcomes on different decisions). Also got the platinum for both.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about a remaster in all honesty. I loved those games but sometimes think they're best left alone, especially only one console generation later! But it would be a great way to get hype bak up for another good ME game.

I also never played the Citadel DLC. I think Leviathan was the only one I picked up for ME3. As I got the PS3 version of ME2, I got all the DLC with that and then picked up Arrival later in to tie into ME3.

Edited on by Thrillho

Thrillho

Thrillho

Personally, I always thought there'd be great scope for prequel games covering the contact wars etc. Admittedly, it may be a little hard to write and some options for narrative branching could be limited with what story has already been written but I always thought it would be really interesting to visit that storyline.

Thrillho

Tjuz

@Thrillho What??? Is there any specific reason you've never played the first Mass Effect? You absolutely need to play that if you've still got your PS3 lying around or manage to run it on PC. Not having played it before Mass Effect 2 honestly sounds so strange to me. You'll miss out on so many powerful moments in Mass Effect 2. Does this mean you've never met Wrex?

The Citadel DLC is great. If you ever end up doing another playthrough (which you should, including the first!!!), definitely buy that too. It's the perfect swan song to the series and possibly my favourite piece of DLC in the series, only rivaled by Lair of the Shadow Broker. You might as well buy Omega too in that case if you've got extra money lying around. Not the best DLC but a fun return to the character of Aria with a solid storyline. From Ashes for ME3 is definitely the first priority for DLC though, since it adds an entirely new squadmate who is actually very important to the plot. Such a strange decision to lock him behind a paywall.

I agree that the Contact Wars would definitely be a very interesting period in Mass Effect lore to visit at some point. I think you could do a lot with the setting even if the resolution of the war is set in stone.

Tjuz

RogerRoger

@mookysam I know how you feel. I also know that, as soon as I start another replay (or worse, finish one) EA will announce a remastered trilogy. Also, glad to meet another Kaidan fan! I think we're a rare breed; so many people I see writing about the games, or the few I've chatted to directly, always seemed to have saved Ashley instead.

I also agree with your musings about 10/10 scores. RiME cannot objectively be called a perfect game, from a technical nor a gameplay experience, but it packed such an emotional punch that I don't care, and my first playthrough will always be with me. That's special, that'd get a 10 from me, but I would totally understand somebody else giving it a much lower score and if I were reviewing it as a journalist, I'd probably have given it a seven or an eight.

@beemo Another I found myself in agreement with on the topic because if I remove all emotion from an analytical, subjective critique, I don't think any game deserves a 10.

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life."
Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard, Stardate: 42923.4

RogerRoger

@Tjuz I'm gonna cut down or give brief replies to some of the sections of our conversation, if that's alright with you; I don't wanna break Push Square, I'm too fond of the place! But please rest assured that I really enjoyed reading your reply in full, and found any details that I may skip over really interesting. Thanks for taking the time!

It definitely sounds like you missed the piano scene because of your romance choices. It's ridiculously sweet; look it up on YouTube if you've got the time (I'd post it here but we can't spoiler-tag videos). My male Shepards, John and Jason, both romanced Kaidan in ME3 and nobody else; I'd been given the heads-up about my romance options by my best friend before starting, but actually found it to be quite a believable and in-depth relationship over the entire trilogy, rather than the sudden "oh, let's just make him bi" change in the final chapter that I'd kinda feared (to the point where I wanted to see Steve's romance, but couldn't bring myself to because he simply didn't have a good-enough backstory to give weight to my romance as the galaxy crumbled around me, whereas all the history with Kaidan did). Kathryn romanced Kaidan in ME1 because it meant I could finally see what it was like from the beginning, then Jacob in ME2. Haven't gotten her to ME3 yet and will decide when I get there, I guess. I just know it won't be Kaidan, as that wouldn't tally with my head canon. Finally, both John and Jason were mostly paragon throughout, with tiny moments of renegade, but only when they were kinda "roguish Han Solo flippant" and not "ruthless murder psycho", whereas Kathryn I pushed more towards renegade because I wanted to see the differences.

The only weird thing was that the big endgame decisions for ME1 and ME2 that I made thinking they'd be paragon actually turned out to be renegade; I totally sacrificed the Council to take down Sovereign and save the Citadel, believing the need to save many innocent lives outweighed the need to save a couple of politicians, and I also preserved the Collector Base for study, believing that it would give the galaxy a better understanding of the Reapers and therefore a better chance of defeating them. Apparently I was "wrong" both times, so having learned the lesson with John, Jason made the paragon call at the end of ME2 (but still did the same thing in ME1; sorry, but I really hated the Council).

I completely agree with your points about objectivity and fandom playing a part in review scores. In any extreme case of that, I'd probably give two scores. For example, I'm currently playing LEGO DC Super-Villains and I know that I'm getting a great deal of joy from the game because I love DC characters, but can still objectively admit that LEGO games haven't changed much and they're simple, repetitive and kinda shallow to play. Since I'm not a journalist who has to give one final score, my opinions will probably reflect that decision and I'd recommend it strongly to DC fans in future, whereas I'd be more realistic talking about it with casual comic fans, Marvel fans or others. If I were forced to give only one score, I'd probably pick something between the two and hope that people read my conclusions, where I'd detail the division. Would you agree that such a compromise would be a fair response to your questions on fandom and personal connection?

No, the HD Trilogy on PS3 contains the seventh, eighth and ninth main Tomb Raider games. The first five were on PSone and didn't really have connected storylines, and the sixth was on PS2 but wasn't well-received, so the franchise was soft-rebooted. The story is therefore accessible and separate when you start with Legend (the seventh) in the HD Trilogy. If you like PSone gaming, then give the older games a try (they're all available digitally as PSone Classics on PS3, PSP and PS Vita) but they're not essential. Legend, Anniversary and Underworld tell a neatly-interconnected story that wraps itself up by the end.

Thanks for all your information about The Walking Dead. I'll keep it in mind and see how my gaming calendar and / or any sales impact my decision. If I ever do end up giving it a try, or watching it, I'll tag you and let you know what I think. I'll also definitely do the same with Hitman 2, sure. I'll probably start a topic for it, if nobody else does, like I did for Shadow of the Tomb Raider and post regular updates on my progress and spoiler-free feedback on gameplay and levels. My moral code means I only kill my intended targets and cause as little fuss as possible, so I apologise if it takes me a while to clear the levels!

Hope those OCD tips do help; likewise, let me know how you get along if you do attempt to use them during your next open-world sandbox. I played Gravity Rush on PS Vita and found it to be pretty easy to stick with the core story. Might be a better one to attempt a different approach, rather than Red Dead Redemption, which does have good side content that could be very tempting (or indeed essential at times, if some of the PR talk about RDR2 is anything to go by). In fact, since you said that you'll look about getting Arkham Origins on PC, it may also tempt you with side quests quite badly, as it's all broken up into districts and systematically revealed to you at key points; be interesting to know how you tackle that, because the core story is so awesome if you can keep the momentum going. The Arkham games are usually quite good at addressing those who want to do all the side stuff after the main story, so you're safe if you do focus. Best of luck!

Thanks for the nod towards Dreamfall (I'll store the name away in my brainspace for future reference) and glad to meet a fellow Disney fan; I'm yet to take the plunge with Kingdom Hearts, it's this huge thing that I'm terrified will dominate an entire year if I try to play it from start to finish in one go (as I'm forced to do, thank you habit) but I'm sure I'd enjoy it if I did. That kinda feeds into your final point, about everything being so good nowadays and there simply being too many awesome experiences out there; I think we, as gamers, just have to pick our battles and rely on our instincts to play things we kinda know we'll like. Which brings us full circle to personal impacts on scores, impressions and feelings about certain games, I guess, and so being the neat-and-tidy chap I am, that's where I'll leave this epic conversation for now!

"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life."
Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard, Stardate: 42923.4

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