Topic: Metal Gear Solid V OT

@themcnoisy I 100% believe it.

Even if you don't mention the dubious conditions under which most outlets reviewed the game, there are a huge number of issues with it that were largely overlooked at the time or were outright ignored in many reviews.

The game structure is mental and badly designed. That doesn't stop it being fun to play, at least for a while. Or for a hundred hours if you're so inclined. But it's easy to see why some were disappointed with it.

It's not really an open world game. It's just two big, empty maps with all missions taking place on those maps. You pick a mission, spend two minutes in the helicopter, run to the mission, fulton someone (usually), run to the helicopter, spend two minutes in the helicopter, repeat. If you want to go from one mission to another you have to take two helicopter journeys complete with loading screens etc. You can't even run from one mission to the next. It's essentially a bunch of variations on the same idea, all taking place on the same two maps.

The missions themselves aren't particularly exciting for the most part, either. The first time you're given a mission to break into an enemy compound to extract Miller it's exhilarating. By the tenth mission of extracting seemingly inconsequential soldiers it's getting repetitive. Throughout the main campaign the vast majority of the required missions you take on are of little import to the plot. It's extract soldier A. Kill soldier B. Extract soldier C. Kill soldier D.

This structure is stretched well beyond its elastic limit because there's so little variation in the mission types, and the game is so long. To get to the final ending of the game you have to do like, what, forty-odd missions? And how many of those truly feel unique? A few of them are literally the same mission again. A telltale sign of how unfinished the game was is that the final mission of the game is literally exactly the same as the first mission in the game with a cut-scene tacked on. They didn't even bother to remove the tutorial prompts that were obviously present in the beginning but had no reason to be at the end. It's still teaching you how to crouch after sixty hours of playing the game because the mission is just copy-pasted.

If you think about it, the previous MGS games managed to fit more variation into much shorter running times despite being more "linear" and they benefited from that. MGS 4, for example, goes:

1. Big open level.
2. Warzone + Boss Fight.
3. Stealth mission + car chase + Boss Fight.
4. Boss Fight + Boss Fight + Boss Fight.
5. Infiltrate Base + Boss Fight + Boss Fight.

All of the boss fights are different, and require different gameplay styles, feeling unique. Not that all of them are good. I could do without Crying Wolf, if I'm honest, but the point is to highlight how the structure of the previous games was better.

Even going further back, the older MGS games were set-up so that you'd progress through the game and come up against new gameplay challenges at regular intervals, interspersed with story updates etc.

For me, MGS V is just too much. There's not enough in the way of ideas, stretched out over a massive game, and so what you get is the same thing over and over. Now, some people can enjoy that. If you enjoy the gameplay enough to play similar missions over and over then you'll love it. But if you're after more, then it's easy to see why people felt let down.

If it was a more traditional MGS game with this gameplay it would be a classic. A tight twenty hour campaign that plays like this? Amazing. As it is, it's great gameplay with a mediocre game built around it. The same idea dragged out for sixty hours, without even the usual MGS narrative hijinks to make it worth persevering with if you start to get bored.

@Mega-Gazz 'This is also obviously ignoring quiet. The only significant woman in the game doesn't talk, does whatever you say because she loves you, is practically naked for a totally dumb reason and cavorts around in water occasionally. Kojima is a sexist perv. Sorry.'

Based on that comment do not play Yakuza Zero you would have an aneurysm.

I forgot that after she saves your life you beat/torture her and lock her in a cage but she remains 100% loyal to you.

And then after you have a strong bond and she's proven her loyalty to you, you torture her again and she STILL remains loyal.

@themcnoisy yes i do, in my opinion it just wasn't up to the same standards as the previous games but like @Rudy_Manchego said it does have flashes of brilliance but on the whole i thought it was empty, repetitive and a bit bland

remember not everyone shares the same opinions, what one person likes another may hate but that doesn't make either side wrong, just different

everyone is entitled to their own opinions, it's part of what makes us all individuals

@Mega-Gazz You are missing the bit where I originally captured her by dropping a Fulton Supply drop on her head and then she fell for me.

@Rudy_Manchego lol true true

MGS5 is the most inferior MGS game overall. But what it does well it does brilliantly. A lot of the repetition can be avoided by being creative and setting yourself challenges. Not a lot of people want to do this though, preferring to work through check list Ubisoft style objectives and trophy lists. From my own perspective I began to tire of it once I began relying on my silenced sniper rifle. But part of that is my own fault for limiting the fun I had through my own lack of creativity.

Had the story, characters and soundtrack been given the usual MGS polish this could have been the best game ever made.

@kyleforrester87 'MGS5 is the most inferior MGS game overall. But what it does well it does brilliantly. A lot of the repetition can be avoided by being creative and setting yourself challenges.'

This sums up my experience to a tee. Changing up the load out and stop relying on the silencer and sniper. I'm sure there's a brilliant run through of the castle level by one of the community here. It's epic and is a must watch. I'm gonna find it right now!

Ive just read through the previous comment s in this thread all the way back to the first page and it's obvious that we are far more chastising when it comes to MGS 5 post the initial buzz. It's clear most people loved it at the time of release and a lot of the criticism is unfair. Take a look at the video in comment 251 of Ash UK, S ranking one of the hardest levels in the game. It's brilliant.

@themcnoisy I think what happened was the game reviewed very strongly, came out, and made a great first impression, and then the number of people disappointed with it steadily grew the more people played it. So initial reaction was very positive - I mean, if I'd only played the first hour I'd have told you it was amazing. It was only once the "open world" part of the game started that I saw the iceberg on the horizon, and then after twenty or thirty hours I was positively bored by the whole experience.

Generally, I think the game is quite divisive now, particularly among the hardcore Metal Gear Solid fans.

@johncalmc To your point about a good first impression - chapter 2 is significantly worse than chapter 1. I'm constantly looking up how to unlock the next mission, which is fun-killing... and the way to unlock always seems to be something completely undocumented like do x side missions, upgrade your base to level x, etc.... so anyone working on chapter 2 would be probably left with a bitter taste in their mouth, esp compared to chapter 1

@Mega-Gazz Yeah, that's another issue. Chapter 2 is chaotically organised. It's needlessly obtuse, and that would be an issue at any time, but at a point in the game when half of the new missions are just repeats of old missions with arbitrarily increased difficulty, it's pretty infuriating. I was so bored by that point that I was frantically Googling how to unlock things while having to do the least amount of work because I just couldn't be bothered to play the game any more. Far too much fluff.

Exactly

Details of the Pro support and what it offers

@BAMozzy I just played Ground Zeroes a few days ago, So I was happy to learn about a Pro update. Unfortunately, this one... it hardly does anything.

@Kidfried In truth, a LOT of the Pro patches don't do a lot. Most just offer a resolution increase and as the GPU is about 2x, we get a 2x boost. 1440p is a little under 2x but its in the middle of CB1800p and CB2160p in terms of Pixel count. Of course CB2160 is exactly 2x1080p but there is additional processing required to pull the correct pixels forward from the previous frame to make up the other 2x1080p worth of pixels. Its more complicated to use CB rendering techniques than just adjusting the output pixel level to a native 1440p. I would have thought though that the Pro would have a bit more resource left to tweak a setting or two - but then seeing the cut-scene drop frames - just the one and not so much compared to the base PS4 in the examples shown, maybe not too many more... I didn't play the game so don't know if performance struggled at any point on PS4 which now play much more consistently with the patch at 1440p.

1440p though isn't surprising at all as a lot of games, if using 'native' hit 1440p. Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy, Titanfall 2 - even AC:Origins to a degree as well - although with Dynamic Scaling does go up and down (1350-1584p) etc.

I don't really mind the patches being limited to 1440 resolution boosts to be honest. Of course I would like more improvements and a CB (or even native) 4K solution would be awesome but 1440 is still quite a nice improvement and results in a nice image on a 4K screen.

Higher quality shadows, further view distances etc are a little harder for me to appreciate unless I'm looking at side by side comparisons.

So yeah, I'll take the resolution boost over nothing.

I've given some semi-serious thought to attempting to play this game again and actually enjoy it this time.

I'm playing this game now, and... color me impressed. This game is really cool to play.

I'm a huge Metal Gear fan, but this game is so different. Too bad were never going to see where Koima could've taken the series next.

And... Is it me or is this game an enormous timesink?

@Kidfried Yes it's a massive time sink lol. I spent 120 hours on it and didn't clear it in the end. So tempting to run about fultoning everything in sight.