@Gremio108 When I was a kid I used to spend all my pocket money on lucky bags, kinder eggs, pogs and sticker packs. It was exciting buying something blind, fortunately I didn't end up a hardcore gambler
Game companies should have a safe guard and children should not be exposed. That's fine and dandy but why should game companies be in charge of that? Since when did they become parents to the children of the world? It's a parents responsibility to educate and see to it that there children are taught right from wrong not the game companies.
I didn't let my son play GTA, CoD or any game along those lines till I knew he was ready and I made sure of it. That's what a parent does.
This day and age everyone wants everything to parent their child but them. Yes it's a thankless job, yes maybe you weren't ready, but no where is it a company's responsibility to make sure your child doesn't grow up to be a dumb***.
Yes I will admit my views might seem callous or heartless but honestly that's is what's wrong with this world today. No one knows self responsibility anymore it's everyone else's fault that they end up the way they do. It's time to pull up your big boy pants and admit you messed up and fix it. It's not the games fault that you spent an entire paycheck on loot boxes. It's not the games fault you don't have a job because you called in to play it. It's no one's fault but your own.
"I pity you. You just don't get it at all...there's not a thing I don't cherish!"
"Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!
@kyleforrester87 Same here, all of the things you mentioned and don't get me started on mini boglins. It didn't affect me and lootboxes won't affect everyone either. But it could well affect some.
Trouble is, the lootbox generation hasn't grown up yet, so we won't know for a bit. But it does feel dodgy as.
Good job, Parappa. You can go on to the next stage now.
@Gremio108 I think a lot of it is down to us just getting older and not reacting well to the changes in the medium we've grown up with. All of a sudden we are miserable old men going "back in my day!".
My 16 year old sister is a big gamer, but she plays things i have never heard of and honestly when I see her on her PC playing her games I sometimes find it to follow what's happening. I guess my point is the type of games and the way they are being played is changing, microtransactions n all, and it's only natural that'll upset a bunch of 30-something stuck in their ways gamers.
People with adictive tendencies will stuggle with anything and everything, not just games. That's their short straw unfortunately and I hope they can get the help they need.
@kyleforrester87 Old? How very dare you sir. I get a similar feeling when I play Minecraft; that sense that gaming has moved on slightly and I don't quite understand how. All this was fields when I was a lad, you see.
Whatever your view on them, there should be more information about microtransactions so parents can make up their own minds, so that if nothing else, at least people will be partly justified in lumping them in with the kind of goons that let their kids play GTA.
Good job, Parappa. You can go on to the next stage now.
Way to combine two of my biggest dislikes. I've never liked the idea of gambling due to living without a lot of money most of my life. I'd rather keep my cash than just toss it away. As the thread suggests, microtransactions and loot boxes make players do exactly that. Another -1 for microtransactions.
The fact that they're starting to pop up in games with a young demographic probably shouldn't shock me, but it does. What's more worrying is that, judging by the amount of kids playing shooters online, there probably are parents that would pay for this stuff.
This stuff isn't just going to go away though. As Gremio said, the best we can do is to raise awareness about it, so that way more people know just how bad this practice is, and hopefully don't partake/stop partaking in it.
"We don't get to choose how we start in this life. Real 'greatness' is what you do with the hand you're dealt." -Victor Sullivan "Building the future and keeping the past alive are one and the same thing." -Solid Snake
@DerMeister So what about the people who are fully aware yet choose to do it anyway? It really annoys me when people call others idiots for enjoying loot crates or making use of microtransactions. If you wanna spend a few quid in a game, go for it. Don't need someone judging you for it. You can "raise awareness" all you want but some people just enjoy doing it. Are we really saying they are wrong?
@kyleforrester87 I've personally never met anybody who actually enjoys microtransactions with full knowledge of it, so I can't honestly say anything about that. If they like it, go ahead. I'm no one's keeper.
I'm talking about the people who don't know about it, people who just feed the money, such as the "whale" the video describes. There's also the potential that some parent who doesn't know anything about games letting their kid do this stuff. Granted, the actual likelihood of someone constantly paying microtransaction money for their kid is low, but since either daddy dearest lets his kid use his XBL account or sets one up for him to play CoD, it's not too far out of the ballpark, I think. The fact that developers actually put these in games geared more for children is a bit of a sticking point for me. They should at least know about the practice before paying.
Although, the idea of a parent saying they can't have a loot box until they mow the lawn is rather hilarious to me.
"We don't get to choose how we start in this life. Real 'greatness' is what you do with the hand you're dealt." -Victor Sullivan "Building the future and keeping the past alive are one and the same thing." -Solid Snake
@DerMeister As I said above when I was a kid I used to like buying "random" things such as stickers/pogs. Part of the fun was not knowing what you were going to get. To be honest the occasional 99p randomised microtransaction is about the same thing for a kid these days. If he's buying a ton of them more fool the mum or dad for giving unlimited access to his credit card :s
@kyleforrester87 "It really annoys me when people call others idiots for enjoying loot crates or making use of microtransactions."
Yeah this is part of the problem to an extent. And your prior point of people enjoying it is valid too. But the same buttons are being pressed that attract gamblers to fruit machines and they are aimed at kids. I dont think the "Against" clique of gamers is neccessarily too old, we can just see the loot box craze for what it is.
Theres multiple parts to what I dont like in gaming and being too old is primarily with multiplayer online only stuff and bare bones releases. We are heading (already arrived) that way anyway but I do want to push back. That is due to being old in honesty.
The loot box stuff is another thing entirely. You shouldn't have to pay money on the slim chance of winning what you want. Thats why the gambling economy have independant adjudicators, debates in the commons, rules and safe gaurding. It is similar to sticker packs in many ways, but combine that with the flashing lights, forced scarcity, none random odds designed by a programmer with the function of extracting as much as possible from whales and you can start to see why it could be an issue.
Forum Best Game of All Time Awards
PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7
@themcnoisy Yeah I do get what you're saying. I've just never been one for wanting to be governed. Let everyone crack on, what will be will be in my opinion
@kyleforrester87 But just from knowing you the last few years, in life you can act autonomously. You think and act for yourself. I can almost guarantee you could be given a task and do it regardless of what or where it was.
Most people arent like that. Its why we need legislation and laws on this stuff.
Forum Best Game of All Time Awards
PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7
@themcnoisy Aha yeah funny you say that, my boss said the same thing to me the other day when I was moaning about how useless someone was. Carry on :')
@themcnoisy So I have to ask what about baseball cards or Pokémon cards? Would you consider those gambling? Kids buy packs of them not knowing what they get in them, they could end up with another Pikachu or Sammy Sosa card when what they want is a Bulbasaur or Alex Rodriguez card. Yet I don't see people going after Baseball cards saying that it teaches kids gambling and they are going to grow up becoming problem gamblers.
It's the same concept when it comes to loot boxes in games like Overwatch.
RetiredPush Square Moderator and all around retro gamer.
sorry for butting in here guys. Ive been enjoying this discussion, it's very interesting but surely @Tasuki your comparsion doesn't work here. Baseball cards are selling themselves solely as baseball cards, no hidden money making. The underage backdoor gambling tho is being hidden inside expensive video games imho of course.
Apart from that, please carry on. I really am enjoying everyones views on a big bugbear of mine.
When i was younger, i used to buy a pack of panini stickers, now the equivalent is FIFA Ultimate team packs... The actual situation hasnt changed in reality, its just how its perceived by everyone...
I stood there chattering in excitement, like a necrophile at a bus crash....
I understand your point of view Taz, parents should watch their kids, not give them credit card details etc etc. Thats fair and spot on. But it would be nice to have the choice to DISABLE THEM COMPLETELY!
Why cant I do that?
Forum Best Game of All Time Awards
PS3 Megathread 2019: The Last of Us
Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7
@dellyrascal
Yes, but at the end of a run of panini stickers, you could send off for the exact few you were missing and have them mailed to you, instead of continually buying sticker packs in the hope that the Ian Rush or Leeds Utd foil would turn up....
Try doing that with FUT!
@Tasuki Right, I'm going to ignore the fact you have completely ignored my issues with each of your replies so far and ask you to qualify the following differences between micritransaction and buying collectable cards. The vast majority of microtransactions require you to first buy a secondary currency to help you disassociate spending real money from what you are actually doing, do you not think this is an underhand tactic that is far more nefarious than paying real money to buy a physical card pack?
Also the disassociation of not having to spend money in a shop you have to travel to is a more worrying aspect of lootboxes vs sticker packs. I'm not going to argue that collectable cards don't have any aspects of gambling, but lootboxes take so many cues from the gambling industry that it isn't a close contest when comparing the two.
One other thing is why does everyone keep only considering children? There are also many adults out there with addictive personalities we should consider. In general I would ask what real problems would regulation of lootboxes have on people who don't have a problem with them? And would those problems really outweigh the benefits the vulnerable would gain? Since most people tell me they don't ever spend money on microtransactions I'm guessing not.
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