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Topic: Team [404 - Team Name Not Found] Deliberation Station

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Th3solution

@Jaz007 @themcnoisy @RogerRoger @Frigate @TowaHerschel7

I had a few minutes at dinner so I just did a little research on some of these games I had never heard of. I put my initial ranking in parentheses after the summary —

Cartoon Network: Punch Time -
A Super Smash Bros clone, poorly executed with niche characters from Cartoon Network. Ugh. (Not important)
Chaotic: Shadow Warriors - based on an animated TV show, it was described as bland combat and tame exploration in IGN’s review, which is one of the few reviews you’ll actually find. Not even enough critical reception to garner a Metacritic score (pointless)
[the awkwardly named] Champion Jockey: G1 Jockey & Gallop Racer - basically a horse jockey racing game, evidently utilized the Move controller. No major outlet reviews online, but most customer reviews are positive. (Not Important)
Child of Eden - a game I’d never heard of but reading about it has me very curious. Quite well received, a 81 Metacritic score, and with a few superlative reviews such as a perfect score from Joystiq and slotted as the 6th best game of 2011 by Metro GameCentral.
It’s a rail shooter which utilizes Move motion controls (and Kinect on 360) in conjunction with sound, tactile vibration, music, and visuals. You shoot objects and they produce a musical sounds upon their destruction.
It almost sounds like it’s in the same vein of Flower, although the visuals are more esoteric and the gameplay deeper. It’s created by the maker of Rez and apparently serves as a prequel to that game.
The gameplay and screenshots look fantastic, and very artistic. With audio, visual, and tactile feedback, it seems highly innovative and relatively groundbreaking, although I’m not sure how influential it became since I think it remained relatively niche. Furthermore, the Xbox 360 version with Kinect support sounds like it was the superior version, one of the few games that actually implemented Kinect well. But reviewers said the game didn’t rely on gimmicky motion controls and could be enjoyed almost as fully with a standard controller. (Important)

Edited on by Th3solution

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Th3solution

A few more for your consideration —

Civilization Revolution - turn based strategy game in the long-standing series. 85 Metacritic score, and won a few awards, including strategy game of the year from OXM. I’ve never been into strategy games, so can only judge based on critical review, but it seems like this is a polished product. Not sure it influenced future gaming much other than to propagate the series including Civ 5 and even a sequel Civ Revolution 2 (Important)
Clash of the Titans - a hack and slash action game based on the movie from the 80’s. Evidently dismal in all aspects. 41 Metacritic score. Probably a shameless attempt to tap into the God of War gravy train. A game so poorly executed that it probably killed an otherwise promising IP. (Pointless)
Clive Barker’s Jericho - apparently Clive Barker is an accomplished horror writer, FYI. I had no idea. This game, a horror tactical FPS type game, has rather mediocre reviews - 63 Metacritic, but quite mixed with some occasional praise. The game is squad based, so you jump around playing as 7 different squad members with different special abilities, thus leading to some of the tactical aspects of the gameplay. Unfortunately the game seems to have suffered from poor AI, clunky controls, and bad map design. Artistically I think it looks like a solid creepy atmospheric game. The wiki page notes rumors about a sequel. I think the squad based tactical ideas sound like could be innovative, but I have a feeling we’ll not see anything come of it. (Existing)
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs - based on the movie, which is based on a children’s book, this game was average at best, 62 Metacritic. Bland appearing, gameplay seems mundane, but the game’s real claim to fame is it’s easy platinum trophy. I think it was one of the first simple platinums along with Hanna Montana and Terminator Salvation, so early trophy hunters clamored to play it for that reason. I’m almost tempted to say the game was important for the platinum alone and it may have inspired other “easy platinum” games to follow, but alas I think that probably is giving it too much credit. (Existing)

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

themcnoisy

@Th3solution that's some great work Sol. Im using your homework to edit some of my impressions. I will track the dance games later, currently in Cheshire Oaks shopping with the wife.

Ie) Standing against a pillar outside Next clothes shop posting to Pushsquare.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

Frigate

@Th3solution Jericho had more promise than it delivered on but it was getting a little criticism for garnering attention by the shocking nature of the content. Still a solid game for PS3, especially so early in its lifecycle.

Frigate

Frigate

🎮Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion XL Papaya Studio Not Important
🎮Castlevania: Lords of Shadow MercurySteam / Kojima Productions Important
🎮Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 MercurySteam / Kojima Productions Important
🎮Catherine Atlus Persona Team Important
Chaotic: Shadow Warriors FUN Labs Not Important
Champion Jockey: G1 Jockey & Gallop Racer Koei Pointless
🎮Child of Eden Q Entertainment Important
🎮Civilization Revolution Firaxis Games Very Important
Clash of the Titans Bandai Namco Pointless
🎮Clive Barker's Jericho MercurySteam Existing
🎮Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs Ubisoft Shanghai Not Important
🎮Colin McRae: Dirt Codemasters Important
🎮Colin McRae: Dirt 2 Codemasters Existing
College Hoops 2K7 Visual Concepts Existing
College Hoops 2K8 Visual Concepts Existing
Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 EA Los Angeles Important
Conan Nihilistic Software Existing
🎮Condemned 2: Bloodshot Monolith Productions Important I'm borderline with very on this one.
🎮Conflict: Denied Ops Pivotal Games Existing
Crash Time 4: The Syndicate Synetic Pointless
Crash Time 5 Synetic Pointless
🎮Create EA Bright Light Important
Cross Edge Compile Heart Existing
🎮Crysis 2 Crytek Important
🎮Crysis 3 Crytek Existing
🎮CSI: Fatal Conspiracy Ubisoft Montreal Not Important
Cyberbike 2 EKO Software Not Important
Damage Inc. Pacific Squadron WWII Trickstar Games Not Important
🎮Damnation Blue Omega Entertainment Pointless
Dance Dance Revolution Konami Very Important
DanceDance Revolution New Moves Konami Existing
Dance! It's Your Stage Neopica Not Important
Dance Magic Targem Games Existing
Dance on Broadway Ubisoft Not Important

Frigate

themcnoisy

Dance on Broadway.

Part of the Ubisoft Just Dance franchise (not to be mistaken for the far better last gen dance dance Konami franchise).

Applauded for bringing Broadway music to consoles. However it had only 20 songs and they are not the original versions of the songs. You can't select difficulty. There is no campaign mode. Rubbish graphics.

Seems like a cash grab. Unimportant or pointless - I'm veering towards pointless as on all the criteria it actually fails big time.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

themcnoisy

Dance Magic Gagin games taken directly from their website page;

What if dancing could heal the world? In Dance Magic, it can.

Imagine a world where every person is not only a dancer, but also a warrior fighting for peace on Earth. These people have developed Dance Magic, a new form of biological energy that can only be realized by dancing. From the smallest personal disagreement to widespread military conflicts—all can be resolved through dancing duels.

Now worldwide peace is threatened by a rising evil. A powerful dancer has plans to use Dance Magic to take over the planet. People will die and the power of dance will be used to destroy, not to heal. Join the fight to stop him! Take part in the most important dance-off of all. You and your friends can save the planet, and the human race!


Pfffffff omg that's the best. On to the task at hand I have no idea how we can grade this other than to look at user reviews and steam. The game also features a couple of great features like custom tracks and multiple modes which are unique.

I am tempted to give this existing as it does go all out and seems like fun with tons of replay ability. However the ideas haven't caught on, and artistically it's below par. For tech I could give it a good for custom tracks alone and my opinion is favourable - I will probably pick this up on Steam and have it on my to buy list.

If we gave it not important (especially for ps3) that's a fair grouping but I really want to play this game for some reason.

Edited on by themcnoisy

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

Th3solution

@themcnoisy As crazy as that Dance Magic game sounds, it’s actually not that far from the concepts in the Persona Dancing games, which I am really enjoying P4 DAN right now. Fending off shadow enemies through dance expression is akin to dancing to develop ‘dance magic’ powers to battle those who would use such magic for evil. Sounds corny as all get out, but it somehow works 😄

@Frigate Impressive list there, man. You’ve played a bunch of these. Care to expound on a couple of them that I’m curious about which you rank highly? Like Create, Crysis 2 (vs 3), and especially Condemned 2 which you’re on the fence about. I’m interested in your thoughts on those in particular because they are important yet I know little to nothing about them. I might want to play them! 😋

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

themcnoisy

My not so final votes

Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion XL Papaya Studio - Not important

Castlevania: Lords of Shadow MercurySteam / Kojima Productions -Existing

Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 MercurySteam / Kojima Productions - Important

Catherine Atlus Persona Team - Important

Chaotic: Shadow Warriors FUN Labs - Pointless

Champion Jockey: G1 Jockey & Gallop Racer Koei - Existing

🎮 Child of Eden Q Entertainment - Important

🎮 Civilization Revolution Firaxis Games - Very Important

Clash of the Titans Bandai Namco - Pointless

Clive Barker's Jericho Mercury's team - Existing

Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs Ubisoft Shanghai - Not Important

🎮 Colin McRae: Dirt Code masters - Existing

Colin McRae: Dirt 2 Code masters - Important

College Hoops 2K7 Visual Concepts - Important

College Hoops 2K8 Visual Concepts - Existing

🎮 Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 EA Los Angeles - Important

Conan Nihilistic Software - Existing

🎮 Condemned 2: Bloodshot Monolith Productions - Important

Conflict: Denied Ops Pivotal Games - Existing

Crash Time 4: The Syndicate Synetic - Pointless

Crash Time 5 Synetic -?

Create EA Bright Light - Important

Cross Edge Compile Heart - Pointless (this is one of the worst games on PS3 for every criteria)

🎮 Crysis 2 Crytek - Important

Crysis 3 Crytek - Very Important

🎮 CSI: Fatal Conspiracy Ubisoft Montreal - Existing

Cyberbike 2 EKO Software - Pointless

Damage Inc. Pacific Squadron WWII Trickstar Games - Pointless

Damnation Blue Omega Entertainment - Pointless

🎮 Dance Dance Revolution Konami - Very Important

DanceDance Revolution New Moves Konami - Existing

Dance! It's Your Stage Neopica - Not Important

Dance Magic Targem Games - Existing

Dance on Broadway Ubisoft - Pointless

Edited on by themcnoisy

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

RogerRoger

Huge thanks to @Th3solution and @themcnoisy for sharing detailed research findings, and to @Frigate for having played so many of the current list. You guys have been really helpful as I've draw together my own votes this morning, allowing me to shorten my own research time without feeling like I've drawn unfair or uninformed conclusions.

Also, special guest thanks to @mookysam for such a passionate defence of Castlevania. I'll always give stronger consideration to the opinion of true fans / players over critics (plus c'mon, it had Patrick Stewart in? How could it be bad?!).

Having played none of this list, however, here are my votes.

***

Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion XL - Not Important
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Existing
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 - Important
Catherine - Existing
Chaotic: Shadow Warriors - Pointless
Champion Jockey: G1 Jockey & Gallop Racer - Not Important
Child of Eden - Important
Civilization Revolution - Important
Clash of the Titans - Pointless (yes, I know I defend licenced games, but there's a limit)
Clive Barker's Jericho - Existing
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs - Existing / Not Important (can't decide, sorry)
Colin McRae: Dirt - Important
Colin McRae: Dirt 2 - Existing
College Hoops 2K7 - Existing
College Hoops 2K8 - Existing
Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 - Important
Conan - Existing
Condemned 2: Bloodshot - Important
Conflict: Denied Ops - Existing
Crash Time 4: The Syndicate - Not Important
Crash Time 5 - Pointless
Create - Important
Cross Edge: Compile Heart - Not Important
Crysis 2 - Important
Crysis 3 - Important
CSI: Fatal Conspiracy - Not Important (sorry Morpheus)
Cyberbike 2 - Pointless
Damage Inc. Pacific Squadron WWII - Not Important
Damnation - Pointless
Dance Dance Revolution - Very Important (even if I hate dancing games)
Dance Dance Revolution New Moves - Er...? See question below!
Dance! It's Your Stage - Not Important
Dance Magic - Existing (the description posted above has me totally sold)
Dance on Broadway - Pointless (despite loving a good show tune)

***

Conan apparently sold poorly and almost every aspect (including Ron Pearlman's voice work) was both praised and criticised in reviews and user feedback. Most say that the gameplay is basically God of War lite, with things like enemy AI and the camera being a poor immitation. I've ranked it slap in the middle, however, because it makes a conscious effort to base itself on the literary version of the character, and replicate Frank Frazetta's famous fantasy artwork, so it's not quite in "shameless cash grab" territory. It's also important to note, however you regard the ongoing debate, that the game was used as evidence during a 2007-2009 effort to regulate the sale of violent videogames in California (an effort which was ultimately deemed an infringement of the First Amendment despite the cinematic Conan himself, Arnold Schwarzenegger, being a supporter of the proposed regulation).

My research on Conflict: Denied Ops reveals a very mid-tier shooter, emblematic of the genre's stagnation during the PS3 era. I'm not surprised to see @Frigate give it an "Existing" rating; I think I'd agree with that, from what I've seen.

I'll stick with my ranking of Create for now, unless somebody can help me see otherwise, because I've just read the PushSquare review (a six, for what it's worth) alongside some gameplay footage and general information and whilst I can see the appeal, I can't see any impact or lasting recognition (at least, not to the scale of similar games, like LittleBigPlanet). Feels a bit like EA going "we need one of these new sandbox creative games" and filling a gap in its schedule. Change my mind (EDIT: Thanks to @Frigate for actually doing just that; I've now ranked it as "Important").

Cyberbike 2 might have the most complex peripheral of all gaming; it comes with a freakin' exercise bike, which you stick in front of your PS3 and use to make your cartoon avatar cycle through various levels. Released at the height of the "games can make you fit" craze, most of the Amazon user reviews I'm currently looking at (as they're the best source of feedback I can find) call it a lovely idea ruined by shoddy implementation. The bike itself regularly broke, buttons would stop working and bits would fall off, and apparently the game's levels were limited and became boring after a while. An online multiplayer mode was apparently "dead" even right after launch, too. I'm tempted to chalk this one up to "Pointless" because, like the Kinect and that weird skateboard thing that never worked, this is a peripheral best forgotten.

We don't have enough dogfighting games, but Damage Inc. Pacific Squadron WWII looks like a squarely average experience all over, so I can't promote it too high for being a rare example of an underserved genre. I'm calling it "Existing" but it's borderline "Not Important" (EDIT: After discovering that it forces you to buy and play with a stupid proprietary joystick, I'm grounding this flight at the "Not Important" terminal; thanks to @Th3solution for the heads-up).

@themcnoisy Dance Dance Revolution: New Moves comes up as a port of the original with some extra songs and PS Move implementation, so are we really counting this as a separate game?

The music in Dance! It's Your Stage is unlicenced, meaning somebody had to create a completely original soundtrack to cash in on the dancing game craze, so a point for effort, I guess. Beyond that, it appears to be an unremarkable PS Move dancing game clone, with freaky-looking realistic dancers and big, flashy stages entirely set in an airport terminal (because reasons). I'm going for "Not Important" on this one.

Hope this helps!

Edited on by RogerRoger

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Th3solution

I had another couple minutes this morning and did a small amount of research on a few unknowns so I’ll share:

Cyberbike 2 - a completely forgettable appearing game that apparently requires an exercise bike (assuming its a proprietary one) to engage in this game that attempts to make excercising on a stationary bike fun. Not much out there as far as reviews and I’m assuming barely a soul actually played this. (Pointless)
Damage Inc. Pacific Squadron WWII - despite the mildly interesting foray into the Pacific theater of WWII, this flight combat simulator was apparently a bomb (pun intended). It appears that it came with [yet another] gimmicky proprietary peripheral, a flight stick manufactured by the game’s publisher Mad Catz. (Man, PS3 / XB360 was certainly the heyday for all these worthless accessories) Apparently the game functioned poorly even with the flight stick. Gameplay , design, graphics, pretty much all of it was described mostly as “bad” (Pointless)
Damnation - a “steampunk shooter” which integrated verticality and acrobatics to the moveset. With a 36 Metacritic, notable personality Greg Miller on IGN at the time tellingly gave it a 2.5/10 saying “avoid this game at all costs” due to terrible graphics, gunplay, AI, and voice acting.
Also called “one of the worst shooters of this generation” by one reviewer. (Pointless)

——

Edit: @RogerRoger You seem to have been on the same wavelength as me and beat me to the punch by a couple minutes while I typed. I was more harsh on Cyberbike and Damage, Inc than you, but I’ll leave my impressions for people to peruse. 😃

Edited on by Th3solution

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Frigate

@RogerRoger @Th3solution At the time I thought Create was really impressive coming across as some kind of Little Big Planet Scribblenauts crossover but all without a central character. The Move controller was centralized to the experience very well and it was technically adept if a little limited in scope. Depending on how imaginative you are can lead to consistently hitting invisible walls at the edge of the technological sandbox. I thought for its time it was Important but I have no problem seeing it come through as Existing.

Edited on by Frigate

Frigate

Frigate

@Th3solution I positioned the Crysis games by virtue of their release dates which may be a little unfair. Utterly beautiful for their time, you're the enhanced super soldier in a swanky getup with special abilities. 2 is not vastly superior to 3 though I feel the more linear environments lend themselves to the game mechanics whereas the more open nature of the third came about as a result of the increasing popularity of that style in other games rather than the actual betterment of Crysis itself. Also, the third game didn't add anything groundbreaking. Bigger, more beautiful... better? No, I didn't think so.

Frigate

RogerRoger

@Th3solution As I typed, I did wonder "What if somebody's continuing the research whilst I'm doing all this, and we both post at the same time?" But hey, the more we all research everything, the better informed our rankings will be... for example, I had no idea Damage Inc. Pacific Squadron WWII came with a proprietary flight stick! All I'd done was watch raw gameplay on YouTube (which now makes more sense, as the handling seemed real loosey-goosey) but Mad Catz used to pull that kinda bunk all the time, so I shouldn't be surprised. I'll lower my ranking to "Not Important" based on that finding, thank you!

@Frigate You've changed my mind on Create, cheers! I'm a huge supporter of judging games in the context of their release window, whereas I was just looking back at the genre in general. Since you said "at the time" twice, you've won me over. I'm bumping it up to "Important" now.

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Frigate

@RogerRoger Thanks! I shoehorned innovation in as a part of my personal judging process.

Speaking of Damage Inc, another team got the Blazing Angels games and they were much better.

Edited on by Frigate

Frigate

RogerRoger

@Frigate I've been enjoying footage of Blazing Angels in a second window; YouTube recommended it to me after I watched the Damage Inc. gameplay!

PSN ID: GDS_2421
Making It So Since 1987

Jaz007

Hey team sorry for being absent this week. It’s been an interesting week for me. I’ll make sure to be back in today. And @themcnoisy, votes are due Sunday still right?

Backkoggery ID: Jaz007

Frigate

@Th3solution Condemned 2 is, or rather, was excellent. Like some kind of mashup between Max Payne (sans bullet time) and the F.E.A.R games with an extra layer of bleak brutality on top, it's an attack on the senses and has you second guessing the twist filled story at regular intervals.

Primarily focused on hand to hand combat from a first person perspective, it does feature guns but the melee was definitely the focus of the combat design. Also featuring adventure game elements in the style of forensic work going over crime scenes.

You play as a former special forces operative haunted by memories of past transgressions and the game is probably best described as a psychological horror.

I think it was actually banned in some countries. I should mention it featured multiplayer too but I don't really recall too much about that. Still noteworthy considering it was released very early in the lifecycle, 2008 or 2009 I think. It's a game not nearly enough people played though I will say it get pretty nuts later in the game, story-wise. Come on Sega, condemned 3, please.

Frigate

themcnoisy

@Jaz007 Saturday midnight. If you struggle to make the deadline ask @Th3solution for an assist. He is the vice Captain.

Edited on by themcnoisy

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

themcnoisy

@RogerRoger Yes it's still classed as a game as it came out. However we will merge them in the spreadsheet if you like so;

Dance Dance: Revolution / Revolution New Moves

Will be classed as one game. As its practically the same.

Forum Best Game of All Time Awards

Multiplat 2018: Horizon Zero Dawn
Nintendo 2017: Super Mario Bros 3
Playstation 2016: Uncharted 2
Multiplat 2015: Final Fantasy 7

PSN: mc_noisy

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